sunday night

[badgolferman]

On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.

We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult. Her name is Valerie.

We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.

As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years. She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.

Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

[Charlie M. 1958]

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years. She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your texting
them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor, or by you
playing music in their car."

But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to deal
with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

[badgolferman]

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.

What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

[CW]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.
What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

+1

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.
What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

Well Bob, you’d be glad to know I’m not the only one put off by her. It
seems she found my friend’s phone number on the meeting directory and
called him this morning at 7:15am demanding a ride to a meeting tonight. He
was taken aback by her boldness, but called a woman from his home group to
pick her up. The lady group member vowed to never go near her again after
dropping her off tonight.

I wonder if Valerie will report her to AA in NY like she did my wife’s
sponsee last year.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.
What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

Well Bob, you’d be glad to know I’m not the only one put off by her. It
seems she found my friend’s phone number on the meeting directory and
called him this morning at 7:15am demanding a ride to a meeting tonight. He
was taken aback by her boldness, but called a woman from his home group to
pick her up. The lady group member vowed to never go near her again after
dropping her off tonight.
I wonder if Valerie will report her to AA in NY like she did my wife’s
sponsee last year.

Crikey.
I'm supposed to be glad to know you're *continuing* your indulgence in idle
(malicious?) gossip behind your victim's back? :-(

Mike, please complete the irony and tell us that your *we* have been
practicing the "Keep Coming Back" self promotion in the groups you're
gossiping about. :-)

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.
What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

Well Bob, you’d be glad to know I’m not the only one put off by her. It
seems she found my friend’s phone number on the meeting directory and
called him this morning at 7:15am demanding a ride to a meeting tonight. He
was taken aback by her boldness, but called a woman from his home group to
pick her up. The lady group member vowed to never go near her again after
dropping her off tonight.
I wonder if Valerie will report her to AA in NY like she did my wife’s
sponsee last year.

Crikey.
I'm supposed to be glad to know you're *continuing* your indulgence in idle
(malicious?) gossip behind your victim's back? :-(
Mike, please complete the irony and tell us that your *we* have been
practicing the "Keep Coming Back" self promotion in the groups you're
gossiping about. :-)

Does anyone have an Australian grammar book? I need one to understand what
Bob says…

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.
What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

Well Bob, you’d be glad to know I’m not the only one put off by her. It
seems she found my friend’s phone number on the meeting directory and
called him this morning at 7:15am demanding a ride to a meeting tonight. He
was taken aback by her boldness, but called a woman from his home group to
pick her up. The lady group member vowed to never go near her again after
dropping her off tonight.
I wonder if Valerie will report her to AA in NY like she did my wife’s
sponsee last year.

Crikey.
I'm supposed to be glad to know you're *continuing* your indulgence in idle
(malicious?) gossip behind your victim's back? :-(
Mike, please complete the irony and tell us that your *we* have been
practicing the "Keep Coming Back" self promotion in the groups you're
gossiping about. :-)

Does anyone have an Australian grammar book? I need one to understand what
Bob says…

Now it's my back you want to gossip behind.

Thank you, Mikey.

By your uttering untruth with gossip and hypocrisy, you've now fulfilled my
prophecy of utter irony. :-)

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob
Now it's my back you want to gossip behind.
Thank you, Mikey.
By your uttering untruth with gossip and hypocrisy, you've now fulfilled my
prophecy of utter irony. :-)

Some of the wacky thoughts you utter makes me wonder if you’re really
hiccum in disguise. At least your imagination ranks up there with him.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman
Some of the wacky thoughts you utter makes me wonder if you’re really
hiccum in disguise. At least your imagination ranks up there with him.

If you say so. 🙄

[Dexter]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob
Now it's my back you want to gossip behind.
Thank you, Mikey.
By your uttering untruth with gossip and hypocrisy, you've now fulfilled my
prophecy of utter irony. :-)

Some of the wacky thoughts you utter makes me wonder if you’re really
hiccum in disguise. At least your imagination ranks up there with him.

-------------------------------------

But Bob is sane. There's a difference.

[badgolferman]

Post by badgolferman
Well Bob, you’d be glad to know I’m not the only one put off by her.
It seems she found my friend’s phone number on the meeting directory
and called him this morning at 7:15am demanding a ride to a meeting
tonight. He was taken aback by her boldness, but called a woman from
his home group to pick her up. The lady group member vowed to never
go near her again after dropping her off tonight.
I wonder if Valerie will report her to AA in NY like she did my wife’s
sponsee last year.

The rest of the story. I'm telling this so Bob can have his daily dose
of self-righteousness again.

The lady who picked up Valerie told us what happened that night and
even forwarded a voicemail to my wife. It seems Valerie started bad
mouthing AA and telling the lady that even she didn't need AA and its
members. The only thing meetings are good for is to keep from being
lonely. Then the next day there were a series of text messages between
them where Valerie started going off on her. She then called and left
a voicemail berating her and calling her "a fucking bitch" numerous
times. I have listened to the voicemail and was shocked by the
screaming and depth of language used. It's not hard to see why people
avoid her after the first time they meet. To be fair, my wife and I
did not experience any of this, but maybe it was because I was with
her. I guess that bridge got blown up!

[Charlie M. 1958]

Post by badgolferman
The rest of the story. I'm telling this so Bob can have his daily dose
of self-righteousness again.
The lady who picked up Valerie told us what happened that night and
even forwarded a voicemail to my wife. It seems Valerie started bad
mouthing AA and telling the lady that even she didn't need AA and its
members. The only thing meetings are good for is to keep from being
lonely. Then the next day there were a series of text messages between
them where Valerie started going off on her. She then called and left
a voicemail berating her and calling her "a fucking bitch" numerous
times. I have listened to the voicemail and was shocked by the
screaming and depth of language used. It's not hard to see why people
avoid her after the first time they meet. To be fair, my wife and I
did not experience any of this, but maybe it was because I was with
her. I guess that bridge got blown up!

I take back what I said about her being a flake. She sounds mentally
ill. I'm guessing she doesn't have any family who could be approached
with concerns about her. If your area has a mental health hotline to
report people who are a potential danger to themselves or others I'd be
tempted to call it. But in all likelihood she'd have to do something
really serious for sny sort of intervention to take place. It's very sad.

[Mark Warner]

Post by Charlie M. 1958
I take back what I said about her being a flake. She sounds mentally
ill. I'm guessing she doesn't have any family who could be approached
with concerns about her. If your area has a mental health hotline to
report people who are a potential danger to themselves or others I'd be
tempted to call it. But in all likelihood she'd have to do something
really serious for sny sort of intervention to take place. It's very sad.

It's not unusual for the mentally ill to attach themselves to AA, since
we tend to put up with a lot of shit that wouldn't fly in any other
setting. If they don't disrupt the meeting or cause problems within the
group, then it's not an issue. But in some cases you have no choice but
to tell them they are no longer welcome.

[Bob]

Post by Mark Warner

Post by Charlie M. 1958
I take back what I said about her being a flake. She sounds mentally
ill. I'm guessing she doesn't have any family who could be approached
with concerns about her. If your area has a mental health hotline to
report people who are a potential danger to themselves or others I'd be
tempted to call it. But in all likelihood she'd have to do something
really serious for sny sort of intervention to take place. It's very sad.

It's not unusual for the mentally ill to attach themselves to AA, since
we tend to put up with a lot of shit that wouldn't fly in any other
setting. If they don't disrupt the meeting or cause problems within the
group, then it's not an issue. But in some cases you have no choice but
to tell them they are no longer welcome.
--
Mark Warner
MX Linux KDE
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

Maybe because I can't claim to be an exemplar of mental health, I'm
astonished by your claim, "it's not unusual ..."
Unable to recall anything like a need for anyone in my AA experience to be
told they're no longer welcome at AA (As distinct from in my car) I did
glean a chuckle realising maybe you would have (and maybe still do) placed
*me* in that category.

Nevertheless, I simply can't imagine a mentally healthy person needing help
at AA.

I do recall that in the AA of my experience, every time someone expressed
similar sentiments to yours, *invariably* someone would come up with the
old joke, "Alcoholics are the only people who can lay in the gutter and
look down on everyone else."

Do you subscribe to the "Alcoholism is a disease" theory? That's the only
explanation for your attitude I can think of.

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob
Maybe because I can't claim to be an exemplar of mental health, I'm
astonished by your claim, "it's not unusual ..."
Unable to recall anything like a need for anyone in my AA experience to be
told they're no longer welcome at AA (As distinct from in my car) I did
glean a chuckle realising maybe you would have (and maybe still do) placed
*me* in that category.

There have been numerous examples of people being told they are no longer
welcome to AA *groups* for various reasons, such as disruption, hitting on
the ladies, non-alcoholics, etc.

The health of the group trumps the health of the individual. It is the
individual who has to adapt to the group.

Tradition One:
Each member of Alcoholics Anonymous is but a small part of a great whole.
A.A. must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common
welfare
comes first. But individual welfare follows close afterward.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob
Maybe because I can't claim to be an exemplar of mental health, I'm
astonished by your claim, "it's not unusual ..."
Unable to recall anything like a need for anyone in my AA experience to be
told they're no longer welcome at AA (As distinct from in my car) I did
glean a chuckle realising maybe you would have (and maybe still do) placed
*me* in that category.

There have been numerous examples of people being told they are no longer
welcome to AA *groups* for various reasons, such as disruption, hitting on
the ladies, non-alcoholics, etc.
The health of the group trumps the health of the individual. It is the
individual who has to adapt to the group.

Are you sure that the unhealthy *insecurity* of your "groups" doesn't trump
the health of individuals? ;-)

Page 69
"We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter
of anyone's sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if
we didn't."

Post by badgolferman
Each member of Alcoholics Anonymous is but a small part of a great whole.
A.A. must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common
welfare
comes first. But individual welfare follows close afterward.

[badgolferman]

Are you sure that the unhealthy insecurity of your "groups" doesn't
trump the health of individuals? ;-)

When was the last time you were a participating member of a home group
and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems you are
speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a realistic one.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Are you sure that the unhealthy insecurity of your "groups" doesn't
trump the health of individuals? ;-)

When was the last time you were a participating member of a home group
and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems you are
speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a realistic one.

I guess having "reality" in your vocabulary does indicate progress of some
sort.
However, your proclivity to avoid reality when confronted by questions you
insist on avoiding is probably obvious to most everyone but you.

FWIW, I still remember the last (and fortunately only) time I paid the
liquor tab for a prospective thirteenth stepee. Wouldn't surprise me if the
person I've become is even more disgusted with such unconscionable
depravity than your unreal self, but I still can't see that behaviour as
reason for exclusion from the hallowed halls of AA.

CRIKEY! Had I been kicked out of AA there's a chance I wouldn't be sober
today, nor would I be still hearing on the grapevine of people claiming
I've helped their sobriety in the years since that terrible day.

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman
When was the last time you were a participating member of a home
group and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems
you are speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a
realistic one.

I guess having "reality" in your vocabulary does indicate progress of
some sort.
However, your proclivity to avoid reality when confronted by
questions you insist on avoiding is probably obvious to most everyone
but you.

Pot calling kettle black.

Post by Bob
FWIW, I still remember the last (and fortunately only) time I paid the
liquor tab for a prospective thirteenth stepee. Wouldn't surprise me
if the person I've become is even more disgusted with such
unconscionable depravity than your unreal self, but I still can't see
that behaviour as reason for exclusion from the hallowed halls of AA.
CRIKEY! Had I been kicked out of AA there's a chance I wouldn't be
sober today, nor would I be still hearing on the grapevine of people
claiming I've helped their sobriety in the years since that terrible
day.

Nobody has been kicked out of AA in this case. What has happened is no
one wants to give rides to this crazy woman.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman
When was the last time you were a participating member of a home
group and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems
you are speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a
realistic one.

I guess having "reality" in your vocabulary does indicate progress of
some sort.
However, your proclivity to avoid reality when confronted by
questions you insist on avoiding is probably obvious to most everyone
but you.

Pot calling kettle black.

If you say so

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob
FWIW, I still remember the last (and fortunately only) time I paid the
liquor tab for a prospective thirteenth stepee. Wouldn't surprise me
if the person I've become is even more disgusted with such
unconscionable depravity than your unreal self, but I still can't see
that behaviour as reason for exclusion from the hallowed halls of AA.
CRIKEY! Had I been kicked out of AA there's a chance I wouldn't be
sober today, nor would I be still hearing on the grapevine of people
claiming I've helped their sobriety in the years since that terrible
day.

Nobody has been kicked out of AA in this case. What has happened is no
one wants to give rides to this crazy woman.

Crikey, Mr AA
You wrote, in this thread,
"There have been numerous examples of people being told they are no longer
welcome to AA *groups* for various reasons, such as disruption, hitting on
the ladies, non-alcoholics, etc.

BTW, I regard any driver's unquestionable right to refuse rides as being a
given, although I admit to trepidation when one idiot grabbed and twisted
the steering wheel on the way to an out of town meeting at 100KPH, and I
was insane enough to continue and, IIRC, drive him back after the meeting.
Incidentally, the other passengers were, as best I recall, overjoyed by the
unscheduled adventure.

[Mark Warner]

Post by badgolferman

Are you sure that the unhealthy insecurity of your "groups" doesn't
trump the health of individuals? ;-)

When was the last time you were a participating member of a home group
and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems you are
speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a realistic one.

When talking about whether AA would be better without someone, one of my
mentors used to ask "Yes, but would *he* be better without /AA/?" But
sometimes you gotta do what's best for all concerned.

I serve on the Board of Directors of the local meetinghouse corporation.
A few months back we had a situation where one attendee with a handful
of years for reasons unknown started being verbally aggressive towards
others in the meeting and then in one meeting became physically
threatening. In both cases cooler heads prevailed, but it was a bad deal
and absolutely not something that could be let go.

We (the Board) discussed the situation at our next meeting, which was
scheduled the same week as the the latest physically threatening
incident. Several AA members were in attendance as observers, but were
there specifically to see what we would be doing about this guy.

We ended up composing a formal letter letting this guy know his behavior
was unacceptable and would no longer be tolerated. Any further incident
and he would be barred from the premises. One Board member who knew him
as well as anyone presented the letter to him privately. He took it
well. He has continued to attend without incident, and his overall
attitude has improved as well.

[Bob]

Post by Mark Warner

Post by badgolferman

Are you sure that the unhealthy insecurity of your "groups" doesn't
trump the health of individuals? ;-)

When was the last time you were a participating member of a home group
and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems you are
speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a realistic one.

When talking about whether AA would be better without someone, one of my
mentors used to ask "Yes, but would *he* be better without /AA/?" But
sometimes you gotta do what's best for all concerned.
I serve on the Board of Directors of the local meetinghouse corporation.
A few months back we had a situation where one attendee with a handful
of years for reasons unknown started being verbally aggressive towards
others in the meeting and then in one meeting became physically
threatening. In both cases cooler heads prevailed, but it was a bad deal
and absolutely not something that could be let go.
We (the Board) discussed the situation at our next meeting, which was
scheduled the same week as the the latest physically threatening
incident. Several AA members were in attendance as observers, but were
there specifically to see what we would be doing about this guy.
We ended up composing a formal letter letting this guy know his behavior
was unacceptable and would no longer be tolerated. Any further incident
and he would be barred from the premises. One Board member who knew him
as well as anyone presented the letter to him privately. He took it
well. He has continued to attend without incident, and his overall
attitude has improved as well.
--
Mark Warner
MX Linux KDE
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

Mark.
In answer to Mike's question you've posted above, I've no incentive to
recall a timeline of my AA experience. Got to my first meeting drunk, and
never drank again. (Although I can recall countless occasions waiting for
midnight to be able to claim another day sober)

Over the years I "looked after" a few different groups, mostly IIRC, as
secretary/treasurer. Being only interested in grass roots AA myself, I
vaguely recall regional "management" and did comply with explicit
instructions to send them $ regularly in return for regional insurance to
cover our group.

As far as I know, there was only one of the three main meetings in my area
under control freak management, and the rest of us managed ok with
ourselves and happily attended each other's meetings. However over the
years various people started what we called resentment meetings, but they
mostly only lasted a year or so. I attended most of them occasionally, and
only recall being in one significant argument, and that was about AA "God"
dogma, as distinct from "bad" behaviour of visitors/members.

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob

Post by Mark Warner

Post by badgolferman

Are you sure that the unhealthy insecurity of your "groups" doesn't
trump the health of individuals? ;-)

When was the last time you were a participating member of a home group
and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems you are
speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a realistic one.

When talking about whether AA would be better without someone, one of my
mentors used to ask "Yes, but would *he* be better without /AA/?" But
sometimes you gotta do what's best for all concerned.
I serve on the Board of Directors of the local meetinghouse corporation.
A few months back we had a situation where one attendee with a handful
of years for reasons unknown started being verbally aggressive towards
others in the meeting and then in one meeting became physically
threatening. In both cases cooler heads prevailed, but it was a bad deal
and absolutely not something that could be let go.
We (the Board) discussed the situation at our next meeting, which was
scheduled the same week as the the latest physically threatening
incident. Several AA members were in attendance as observers, but were
there specifically to see what we would be doing about this guy.
We ended up composing a formal letter letting this guy know his behavior
was unacceptable and would no longer be tolerated. Any further incident
and he would be barred from the premises. One Board member who knew him
as well as anyone presented the letter to him privately. He took it
well. He has continued to attend without incident, and his overall
attitude has improved as well.
--
Mark Warner
MX Linux KDE
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

Mark.
In answer to Mike's question you've posted above, I've no incentive to
recall a timeline of my AA experience. Got to my first meeting drunk, and
never drank again. (Although I can recall countless occasions waiting for
midnight to be able to claim another day sober)
Over the years I "looked after" a few different groups, mostly IIRC, as
secretary/treasurer. Being only interested in grass roots AA myself, I
vaguely recall regional "management" and did comply with explicit
instructions to send them $ regularly in return for regional insurance to
cover our group.
As far as I know, there was only one of the three main meetings in my area
under control freak management, and the rest of us managed ok with
ourselves and happily attended each other's meetings. However over the
years various people started what we called resentment meetings, but they
mostly only lasted a year or so. I attended most of them occasionally, and
only recall being in one significant argument, and that was about AA "God"
dogma, as distinct from "bad" behaviour of visitors/members.

Back in the 90’s when I lived in Utica, NY, they strictly enforced the
closed meeting concept by asking non-alcoholics to leave. This happened
during the meeting if it was discovered someone was a medical student, drug
addict, children, or family member. In some instances there was a quick
vote to see if the members agreed to making it open so the non-alcoholic
could remain. If one alcoholic objected then the person was sent away. This
is in the days when the AA meeting was for alcoholics, not any addiction.

Some 15-20 years ago around here there was an oldtimer (30+ years) who had
become disruptive by interrupting people and doing some other things. He
was told repeatedly to stop his behavior. He was banned from a noon meeting
after refusing to heed the warnings. He would go to other meetings claiming
he had been “banned from AA” and wore it as a badge of honor.

There was a guy who came to my home group for a couple months who claimed
to be alcoholic, but when he spoke it was only Bible preaching. After much
complaining by others, I took a couple guys with me and we approached him
after a meeting one night and asked him to limit his comments to his
experience with alcoholism. He became obnoxious then threatened me by
telling us about his hunting bow and arrow in his car. Thankfully we never
saw him again.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob

Post by Mark Warner

Post by badgolferman

Are you sure that the unhealthy insecurity of your "groups" doesn't
trump the health of individuals? ;-)

When was the last time you were a participating member of a home group
and attended their business meetings? I ask because it seems you are
speaking from an idealistic viewpoint rather than a realistic one.

When talking about whether AA would be better without someone, one of my
mentors used to ask "Yes, but would *he* be better without /AA/?" But
sometimes you gotta do what's best for all concerned.
I serve on the Board of Directors of the local meetinghouse corporation.
A few months back we had a situation where one attendee with a handful
of years for reasons unknown started being verbally aggressive towards
others in the meeting and then in one meeting became physically
threatening. In both cases cooler heads prevailed, but it was a bad deal
and absolutely not something that could be let go.
We (the Board) discussed the situation at our next meeting, which was
scheduled the same week as the the latest physically threatening
incident. Several AA members were in attendance as observers, but were
there specifically to see what we would be doing about this guy.
We ended up composing a formal letter letting this guy know his behavior
was unacceptable and would no longer be tolerated. Any further incident
and he would be barred from the premises. One Board member who knew him
as well as anyone presented the letter to him privately. He took it
well. He has continued to attend without incident, and his overall
attitude has improved as well.
--
Mark Warner
MX Linux KDE
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

Mark.
In answer to Mike's question you've posted above, I've no incentive to
recall a timeline of my AA experience. Got to my first meeting drunk, and
never drank again. (Although I can recall countless occasions waiting for
midnight to be able to claim another day sober)
Over the years I "looked after" a few different groups, mostly IIRC, as
secretary/treasurer. Being only interested in grass roots AA myself, I
vaguely recall regional "management" and did comply with explicit
instructions to send them $ regularly in return for regional insurance to
cover our group.
As far as I know, there was only one of the three main meetings in my area
under control freak management, and the rest of us managed ok with
ourselves and happily attended each other's meetings. However over the
years various people started what we called resentment meetings, but they
mostly only lasted a year or so. I attended most of them occasionally, and
only recall being in one significant argument, and that was about AA "God"
dogma, as distinct from "bad" behaviour of visitors/members.

Back in the 90’s when I lived in Utica, NY, they strictly enforced the
closed meeting concept by asking non-alcoholics to leave. This happened
during the meeting if it was discovered someone was a medical student, drug
addict, children, or family member. In some instances there was a quick
vote to see if the members agreed to making it open so the non-alcoholic
could remain. If one alcoholic objected then the person was sent away. This
is in the days when the AA meeting was for alcoholics, not any addiction.
Some 15-20 years ago around here there was an oldtimer (30+ years) who had
become disruptive by interrupting people and doing some other things. He
was told repeatedly to stop his behavior. He was banned from a noon meeting
after refusing to heed the warnings. He would go to other meetings claiming
he had been “banned from AA” and wore it as a badge of honor.
There was a guy who came to my home group for a couple months who claimed
to be alcoholic, but when he spoke it was only Bible preaching. After much
complaining by others, I took a couple guys with me and we approached him
after a meeting one night and asked him to limit his comments to his
experience with alcoholism. He became obnoxious then threatened me by
telling us about his hunting bow and arrow in his car. Thankfully we never
saw him again.

"In some instances there was a quick
vote to see if the members agreed to making it open so the non-alcoholic
could remain. If one alcoholic objected then the person was sent away."

I vaguely recall attending one meeting where that happened, but being loyal
to "grass roots AA" as opposed to (or as distinct from?) "Official AA" I
was more amused than concerned by the event.

Arguably there's a common factor in the _guy grabbing my steering wheel_
event, and your _guy with hunting bow_ event, and that factor is the
attribute of equanimity.

Can you conclude that ideally, equanimity should take precedence over
authority?

[badgolferman]

Post by Bob
Can you conclude that ideally, equanimity should take precedence over
authority?

Sure, but realistically self-preservation trumps both of those.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by Bob
Can you conclude that ideally, equanimity should take precedence over
authority?

Sure, but realistically self-preservation trumps both of those.

Crikey Mikey.
You're so anal you're trying to snip a discussion into a wall shitting
contest, yet again!

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman

Post by badgolferman
Well Bob, you’d be glad to know I’m not the only one put off by her.
It seems she found my friend’s phone number on the meeting directory
and called him this morning at 7:15am demanding a ride to a meeting
tonight. He was taken aback by her boldness, but called a woman from
his home group to pick her up. The lady group member vowed to never
go near her again after dropping her off tonight.
I wonder if Valerie will report her to AA in NY like she did my wife’s
sponsee last year.

The rest of the story. I'm telling this so Bob can have his daily dose
of self-righteousness again.

*My* daily dose of self righteousness?

Post by badgolferman
The lady who picked up Valerie told us what happened that night and
even forwarded a voicemail to my wife. It seems Valerie started bad
mouthing AA and telling the lady that even she didn't need AA and its
members. The only thing meetings are good for is to keep from being
lonely. Then the next day there were a series of text messages between
them where Valerie started going off on her. She then called and left
a voicemail berating her and calling her "a fucking bitch" numerous
times. I have listened to the voicemail and was shocked by the
screaming and depth of language used. It's not hard to see why people
avoid her after the first time they meet. To be fair, my wife and I
did not experience any of this, but maybe it was because I was with
her. I guess that bridge got blown up!

"a series of text messages between them"
Had one of you "elite" gossips acquired a capacity to be honest when
necessary, merely *one dose* of direct honesty would enable more freedom to
get on with your lives.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, establishing and maintaining personal
boundaries is a valid expression of Sanity. If your AA call centre and
associated car drivers can't make that clear, they're probably trying to
share what they haven't got; so are stuck with only gossip to share amongst
each other.

Abandoning AA's promotional mantra, "Keep Coming Back" could proactively
minimise future idiotic distractions too, without making alcoholics who
want help with their alcoholism feel in the slightest unwelcome.

[Dexter]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman

Post by Charlie M. 1958

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for
someone who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go
out at night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and
pick up the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text
message from the woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be
on time, no weapons, no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for
us. She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed
in a strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick
lines painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large
bags and a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this
woman has been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a
reputation for being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to
give her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing
her loud music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her
over and tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda
for getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice
to Linda about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.
She complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has
trouble getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an
attention whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I
didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day
didn't mind saying what you needed to hear.

It's hard to say, having not actually been there. But based on your
description, when she said she had trouble getting rides I might have
told her something like, "Maybe some people are put off by your
texting them them with instructions when they're doing you a favor,
or by you playing music in their car."
But overall she sounds like a flake, and I've found the best way to
deal with flakes in AA is to avoid them as much as possible.

It seems people have been avoiding her, but Bob seems to frown on that.

I’m confident she knows she’s rejected, and you’re not confident that she
knows why.
What I definitely (as distinct from seem to) frown on is your own incessant
boasts of loyalty and service to an AA which freely gave to you, being
exemplified by your indulgence in negative gossip against another drunk;
while not even bothering to freely give her the reason why.

-------------------------------------

You have a fine aim. I'm not entirely sure how I would have
handled that.

[Bob]

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years. She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

"A reputation for being difficult"
That your AA "fellowship" was willing to gossip about her, rather than a
willingness to talk directly to her, could easily explain her expectations.
Her likely awareness of being amongst AA's them, as distinct from AA'S us
who "looked her over and tried to move on" doesn't say much for her
chances, IMO.

Not to worry Mike, you and your wife can always categorise her as merely
another "unfortunate", and blame her for being unwilling to be honest with
herself.

[Sharx335]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting.  My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman.  Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's.  She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face.  She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car.  It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult.  Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her.  During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing.  As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers.  Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.  She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides.  I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that?  People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

"A reputation for being difficult"
That your AA "fellowship" was willing to gossip about her, rather than a
willingness to talk directly to her, could easily explain her expectations.
Her likely awareness of being amongst AA's them, as distinct from AA'S us
who "looked her over and tried to move on" doesn't say much for her
chances, IMO.
Not to worry Mike, you and your wife can always categorise her as merely
another "unfortunate", and blame her for being unwilling to be honest with
herself.

Hmmm.Always easy for ME to tell YOU (Mike) what *I* would have done!!
Let's see. The music on the phone would have triggered me. I would have
made it clear that we had a "tradition" of having a "meeting before the
meeting" on the way TO the meeting and ANY music would not be conducive
to that.
AFTER she complained about having trouble getting rides, I THEN might
suggest that NOT playing that music might help. Ditto for the singing. I
would NOT preach about the OUTSIDE smoking as, WTF, I, myself, smoked
for the first 5 years of my sobriety journey.As far as her gratuitous
advice...I'd approach that obliquely, at least at first. Maybe a
rejoinder about how, in my (your wife's) 37 years in the Program, how
she had never heard those suggestions before OR if she had, how those
suggestions did not work out for some OP.

Just sayin'...as I said, t'is easy for me up here in Canada to pontificate.

[Dexter]

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting.  My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman.  Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's.  She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face.  She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car.  It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult.  Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her.  During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing.  As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers.  Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.  She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides.  I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that?  People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

"A reputation for being difficult"
That your AA "fellowship" was willing to gossip about her, rather than a
willingness to talk directly to her, could easily explain her expectations.
Her likely awareness of being amongst AA's them, as distinct from AA'S us
who "looked her over and tried to move on" doesn't say much for her
chances, IMO.
Not to worry Mike, you and your wife can always categorise her as merely
another "unfortunate", and blame her for being unwilling to be honest with
herself.

Hmmm.Always easy for ME to tell YOU (Mike) what I would have done!! Let's
see. The music on the phone would have triggered me. I would have made it
clear that we had a "tradition" of having a "meeting before the meeting" on
the way TO the meeting and ANY music would not be conducive to that. AFTER
she complained about having trouble getting rides, I THEN might suggest that
NOT playing that music might help. Ditto for the singing. I would NOT preach
about the OUTSIDE smoking as, WTF, I, myself, smoked for the first 5 years of
my sobriety journey.As far as her gratuitous advice...I'd approach that
obliquely, at least at first. Maybe a rejoinder about how, in my (your
wife's) 37 years in the Program, how she had never heard those suggestions
before OR if she had, how those suggestions did not work out for some OP.

Now, here I can agree with your take. It's possible Mike was a bit too
gobsmacked by her unusual behavior to make an attempt at carrying
the message.

Just sayin'...as I said, t'is easy for me up here in Canada to pontificate.

-------------------------------------

Can I quote you on that?

[Sharx335]

Post by Dexter

Post by Bob

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting.  My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman.  Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's.  She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face.  She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car.  It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult.  Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her.  During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing.  As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers.  Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years.  She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides.  I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that?  People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

"A reputation for being difficult"
That your AA "fellowship" was willing to gossip about her, rather than a
willingness to talk directly to her, could easily explain her expectations.
Her likely awareness of being amongst AA's them, as distinct from AA'S us
who "looked her over and tried to move on" doesn't say much for her
chances, IMO.
Not to worry Mike, you and your wife can always categorise her as merely
another "unfortunate", and blame her for being unwilling to be honest with
herself.

Hmmm.Always easy for ME to tell YOU (Mike) what I would have done!! Let's
see. The music on the phone would have triggered me. I would have made it
clear that we had a "tradition" of having a "meeting before the meeting" on
the way TO the meeting and ANY music would not be conducive to that. AFTER
she complained about having trouble getting rides, I THEN might suggest that
NOT playing that music might help. Ditto for the singing. I would NOT preach
about the OUTSIDE smoking as, WTF, I, myself, smoked for the first 5 years of
my sobriety journey.As far as her gratuitous advice...I'd approach that
obliquely, at least at first. Maybe a rejoinder about how, in my (your
wife's) 37 years in the Program, how she had never heard those suggestions
before OR if she had, how those suggestions did not work out for some OP.

Now, here I can agree with your take. It's possible Mike was a bit too
gobsmacked by her unusual behavior to make an attempt at carrying
the message.

Just sayin'...as I said, t'is easy for me up here in Canada to pontificate.

-------------------------------------
Can I quote you on that?

Oh, yeah, I was in one of my short periods of relative lucidity. And,
yes, you can quote that one, too.

[Pluted Pup]

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years. She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

If it was said, it'd be better that a woman told her
that her attention seeking behavior was causing people
to avoid her.

[Sharx335]

Post by Pluted Pup

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years. She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

If it was said, it'd be better that a woman told her
that her attention seeking behavior was causing people
to avoid her.

Hmm. I wonder about that. IMHO women can be meaner in their relations
with other women than with men. I've seen too many women, early in the
Program, CLAIMING to relate better with MEN than with other women. Yeah,
right, probably because their "charms" still have some effect. A stiff
cock has little or no conscience, you know. Or, have you forgotten what
a stiffy is? JUST joking!!!! A little laugh is good for the soul--we
are not a glum lot.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

Post by badgolferman
On Sunday my wife got a call from the AA answering service for someone
who needed a ride to a meeting. My wife doesn't like to go out at
night and since I usually do, I offered to ride with her and pick up
the woman. Shortly before we left she received a text message from the
woman with all these expectations of us, i.e. be on time, no weapons,
no harm, etc.
We arrived in the bad section of town and a woman was waiting for us.
She must have been late 50's or early 60's. She was dressed in a
strapless colorful dress with colorful makeup and lipstick lines
painted like cat whiskers on her face. She carried two large bags and
a loud phone playing music into my car. It turns out this woman has
been picked up by Linda's sponsees before and has a reputation for
being difficult. Her name is Valerie.
We arrived at the meeting early so Linda got a meeting directory and
personally went around to other women for their phone numbers to give
her. During this time Valerie was outside smoking, playing her loud
music and singing. As people arrived they all looked her over and
tried to move on.
As we were leaving and headed back to her house, she thanked Linda for
getting the phone numbers. Then she proceeded to give advice to Linda
about AA, not knowing that she's been sober for 37 years. She
complained that she's been in our area for eight years and has trouble
getting rides. I wanted to tell her if she wasn't such an attention
whore and weirdo maybe it would be different, but I didn't.
Would it have been wrong for me to say that? People in my day didn't
mind saying what you needed to hear.

The ol' When anyone reaches out...... shit I meet with reservations..I
stay away from nut jobs