Discussion:
October 7 Attacks
(too old to reply)
Fred Exley
2024-10-07 19:12:39 UTC
Permalink
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
weighs in:


This is the first anniversary of the October 7th attacks. The savage
invasion of last year in which Hamas broke through the borders of Israel
and proceeded to kill, rape, behead, burn, maim, and kidnap innocent
civilians predictably provoked the Israeli government to retaliate.

It was perhaps also unsurprising that Israel’s reprisal would be
denounced by the usual unholy alliance of Islamists and leftists. These
perennial detractors of Israelis and Jews had, for decades, made a habit
of not only excusing Palestinian intransigence but also blaming Israel
no matter what.

What was surprising however, given the scale and severity of last year’s
attacks, was the success of the anti-Israel propaganda in the West,
specially in Britain and America. This propaganda was awfully effective
in influencing political, academic, and media leaders against Israel’s
right to destroy Hamas and bring back the hostages. The propagandists
called for a ceasefire before Israel had responded; they used the UN
platform to slander Israel accusing her of committing a genocide and war
crimes. They mobilized large groups in the West including student groups
on college campuses to demand that Israel stop the mission to bring back
the hostages and defeat Hamas.

The anti-Israel Israel propaganda turned the conflict into a polarising
issue on the same level as the election of Donald Trump in 2016 or
Brexit in the UK. Even Jewish families and communities are disagreeing
on the way the Israeli government under the leadership of Bibi Netanyahu
is prosecuting this war. It is leading to painful confrontations and
even splits.

In my view, Bibi and his cabinet, together with the IDF, have done a
brilliant job conducting this mission. Despite the enormous pressures
placed on them, and betrayal from their allies, Israelis are succeeding.
They have conducted a string of superb military operations like the
demolition of the tunnels, the defeat of Hamas, and the destruction of
Hezbollah. Israel is determined to continue to take the war to Iran. It
is a righteous war if ever there was one.

At Restoration we bring you a remarkable correspondence between two
British-Jewish friends, Mr. M. and Mr. P. It captures the dramatic
battles of perspective underway in our societies and specially within
Jewish groups. In the end it is letters like the one here written by Mr.
P that will defeat the propaganda. Truth is the best and most powerful
antidote to lies regardless of how slick or expensively such lies are
produced. What we can learn from Mr. P is to find the courage in us to
express it.

Letter 1

P, I really haven’t known how to respond but Israel’s killing spree has
only increased since you sent this message and yes, my mind is made up.
Apart from destroying innocent Palestinian and now Lebanese lives,
Netanyahu’s mindless aggression will encourage antisemitism for another
50 years. I don’t care what semantics or legal arguments are used to
justify Israel’s military conduct. My heart and common sense tell me
something else.

I feel very angry but hope you are well.

Perhaps it would be best if we stick to music.

M

Letter 2

Dear M,

Thanks for your message and I am sorry you have been suffering. It must
feel like a horrible time for you. It’s clear from your message that you
are a peace loving romantic and would rather pursue diplomatic routes
with the Islamists than fight them directly. You are not alone in having
this feeling today, or in the historical context. In May 1940 when
Britain was already at war and Chamberlain was still prime minister, 281
vs 200 MPs still voted to appease rather than to fight Hitler. Even
after he stood down and Churchill took over and after Nazis had invaded
Poland and started the slaughter of our ancestors, still 10-15% of MPs
in Britain argued to appease Hitler rather than fight him - this was led
by Lord Halifax. Thankfully these appeasers were outvoted and the allies
managed to destroy Hitler and bomb his ideology into abeyance for a few
generations.

If the appeasers had won the day then you and I would have never been
born because our parents and grandparents would have been slaughtered in
Nazi camps. The well intended peace loving appeasers were on the wrong
side of history. Let me ask you if you think that in the last year
Israel has been under any less threat than the Sudetenland, Poland or
France were in 1939? My view: The threat is actually higher for Israel
today because the stated aims of annihilation of Israel’s enemies are
even more clearly stated in Iran’s manifesto than Hitler’s was, and Iran
and it’s proxies have the massive advantage of numbers and geographic
encirclement that Hitler never had. This leads me to conclude that the
appeasers like you today, are just as much on the wrong side of history
as the appeasers of 1939.

However, I am sure your motives come from a good place, and I sincerely
believe that you are a good peace-loving man. From your brief message
and our original discussions it feels that you have been convinced that
Israeli Jews have been the oppressors of Palestinians for generations.
You’ve also made it clear that you feel that the bombing of Gaza and
Lebanon is mindless violence, cruel and disproportionate.

I presume you know how many peace agreements have been brokered since
1947…. Each of which offered Palestine its own state. Every single one
of these were rejected by Palestine but accepted by Israel: The UN
Partition Plan (1947), Madrid Conference (1991), Oslo Accords
(1993–1995), Camp David Summit (2000), Taba Summit (2001), Road Map for
Peace (2003), Annapolis Conference (2007), 2010 Direct Talks, John
Kerry-led Peace Talks (2013–2014), and the Trump Peace Plan (2020). And
don’t forget the Gaza withdrawal in 2005. Not one of these have resulted
in any less desire by the Arabs to annihilate the Jews. The Jews have
been consistently willing to give Palestine its own state, and in fact
were the only people who agreed to the recommended partition plan in
1947…. which was rejected the Arabs and also the British. Palestinians
do not want their own state. They want Jews out of the entire Middle
East. They want the Jew to go back to where they came from… and because
we have no state to return to, what they really want is for us all to
die. I presented you with the evidence by an international delegation of
military generals that visited Gaza recently and who concluded the IDF
was governed to exceptionally high moral standards. You have described
these findings as “semantic or legal arguments” and seem to prefer the
argument of what your heart is telling you. You’re clearly upset by
civilian deaths in Lebanon as am I. I have many many Lebanese friends…
some of the finest and warmest people I know. That they’ve been held
hostage by Hezbollah is a tragedy and that some of their civilians have
died as a result of their government not being able to resist a de facto
Iranian takeover is horrendous. But after nearly 10,000 rockets being
fired into Israel, clearing the population out of 10% of Israel’s
territory, and the level of effort the IDF have used to be precise by
taking out the military leadership with the pagers, and trying to bomb
only military instalments and rocket launchers seems entirely
proportionate to me and to legal and military experts. Bear in mind that
Israel waited nearly a year to take any material action against Lebanon
at all… and Hezbollah’s attack on Oct 8th was completely unprovoked.
There is zero territorial dispute between Lebanon and Israel. I do hope
that the battle in Lebanon will be short and decisive and that the
Lebanese will have the resolve and resources to reclaim their country.

As you are a musician and a romantic it is natural that your emotional
response to the world takes on an even higher status than it would for
the average person, and I am sure that this heightened faculty serves
you well when you’re listening to Chopin Ballades. It may be less
valuable an asset when analysing the justification for war. War is
horrendous and it is understandable that anyone would recoil from the
images of death, and particularly the death of the innocent. I can tell
that you are suffering when confronted by these images and this reality
of war. I will conclude by just making two comments about this:

There is an important distinction between feeling good, and doing good.
I understand that images of war don’t make you feel good about yourself
and this leads to the naturally reflexive response of just urging it all
to stop. Here I would just remind you that you owe your life to the
courage of allies and Jews who lived before you and fought in the
trenches and gave their lives to grant you a lifetime of relative peace
that you’ve lived in. Your life of wallowing in classical music in the
safety and luxury of North London owes its existence to your courageous
ancestors who actually had the courage to look into the face of the
horror of warfare and do the right thing, even when it didn’t make them
feel good at all. That peace dividend is coming to an end. Islamists and
Jihadis have organised themselves internationally to attack the Jews in
their homeland and once again the world is being challenged to do the
right thing and resist another genocide. Like there was in 1939, there
will still be a group of people who are so caught up in cowardly denial
and the desire to feel good about themselves they will choose to be on
the wrong side of history. They will choose to appease. They will
pretend that a diplomatic solution with Islamists is possible even when
presented with the above overwhelming evidence that all past diplomatic
attempts have ended in failure, have been interpreted as signs of
Weakness by the Islamists and have given them time to rally and
consolidate their forces. Just like Lord Halifax and his shameful
legacy, you are presenting as one of those cowards today.

Lastly, you have explained that you fear Israel’s actions will drive
another 50 years of antisemitism. I have bad news for you. The presence
of antisemitism amongst the liberal elite that you and I live in was
revealed on October 8th, as celebrations broke out around the world to
celebrate the Pogrom against the Jews. You and I likely both felt that
antisemitism in our time was restricted to Jihadists in the Muslim
world, or deadhead white suprematists who never make it into the kind of
piano recitals that you and I like to attend. The bad news is that you
and I are already surrounded by the antisemites within the chattering
British middle-classes. They have revealed themselves to be reflexively
Jew hating by their instinctive support for the 3 blood libels against
Israel… that it is a colonialist settler state, that it is apartheid and
that it is genocidal. Three claims that are simply and demonstrably
untrue. It is likely that many of your non Jewish piano students are
themselves antisemitic and have grown up in antisemitic homes. It’s
quite possible that your anti-Israel stance coming from a Jew will give
you extra levers of ingratiation amongst this community. Your virtue
signalling and transparent desire to feel good about yourself will have
a heightened currency amongst your liberal elite friends, not because
your position is original or insightful, but because being Jewish and
anti-Israel (and therefore Pro-Islamism) makes you particularly
intriguing. You likely hope this will make it easier for you to
assimilate, to remain acceptable, and to avoid the wall of antisemitism
that you rightly feel is swelling internationally. Sadly it will not
help you because the liberal-elite distaste for Jews will ultimately be
directed to you as well… Just like the assimilators were thrown into the
gas chambers in WWII amongst the ultra-orthodox, you with your
distinctively Ashkenazy name, won’t be spared their disdain or their
cruelty.

What you say it is certainly true… that the actions of Netanyahu are
going to make life harder for the diaspora Jews, who make up around 50%
of the Jews on the planet. The war has made acceptable the more latent
and hidden antisemitism that was clearly rife within our communities.
All I would say to you is this: 50% of your ethnic community are
literally fighting for their lives and for the survival of Israel. They
are giving up their children to die in the IDF. They have entered
Lebanon because it was discovered that an Oct 7th like pogrom was being
planned and was imminent in the north of the country. These young
soldiers are the frontline against a 21st-century Jihad whose pogroms
promise to extend far beyond Israel as you will see on your TV from the
protests currently on our streets and will climax on Oct 7 2024. Every
time you hear a protestor calling “River to the Sea” you must recognise
that these people are not calling for a territorial redistribution… much
like the Middle Eastern Islamists have no interest in settling a
territorial dispute. These people are calling for an annihilation of
Jewry… and you are one of these Jews that their hatred extends to you.
So to conclude, I am sorry if the Israeli fight for survival makes you
feel a little uncomfortable in North London. It must be a terrible
affront to your karma that more people are likely speaking behind your
back about you in your favourite Coffee shops or in the Wigmore Hall,
while the children of your cousins in Israel are being slaughtered while
fighting against the massive odds in Lebanon and likely soon in Iran. I
am sure that this leaves you with a whole range of horrible and
fear-filled feelings. Nevertheless, I still hope that you will find a
way to dig deep and find a little dignity and courage. Even if this
creates a little discomfort, you owe it to your heritage to find a way
to become a better man.




https://www.restorationbulletin.com/p/october-7-attacks?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2327889&post_id=149909253
Bob
2024-10-07 20:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
This is the first anniversary of the October 7th attacks. The savage
invasion of last year in which Hamas broke through the borders of Israel
and proceeded to kill, rape, behead, burn, maim, and kidnap innocent
civilians predictably provoked the Israeli government to retaliate.
It was perhaps also unsurprising that Israel’s reprisal would be
denounced by the usual unholy alliance of Islamists and leftists. These
perennial detractors of Israelis and Jews had, for decades, made a habit
of not only excusing Palestinian intransigence but also blaming Israel
no matter what.
What was surprising however, given the scale and severity of last year’s
attacks, was the success of the anti-Israel propaganda in the West,
specially in Britain and America. This propaganda was awfully effective
in influencing political, academic, and media leaders against Israel’s
right to destroy Hamas and bring back the hostages. The propagandists
called for a ceasefire before Israel had responded; they used the UN
platform to slander Israel accusing her of committing a genocide and war
crimes. They mobilized large groups in the West including student groups
on college campuses to demand that Israel stop the mission to bring back
the hostages and defeat Hamas.
The anti-Israel Israel propaganda turned the conflict into a polarising
issue on the same level as the election of Donald Trump in 2016 or
Brexit in the UK. Even Jewish families and communities are disagreeing
on the way the Israeli government under the leadership of Bibi Netanyahu
is prosecuting this war. It is leading to painful confrontations and
even splits.
In my view, Bibi and his cabinet, together with the IDF, have done a
brilliant job conducting this mission. Despite the enormous pressures
placed on them, and betrayal from their allies, Israelis are succeeding.
They have conducted a string of superb military operations like the
demolition of the tunnels, the defeat of Hamas, and the destruction of
Hezbollah. Israel is determined to continue to take the war to Iran. It
is a righteous war if ever there was one.
At Restoration we bring you a remarkable correspondence between two
British-Jewish friends, Mr. M. and Mr. P. It captures the dramatic
battles of perspective underway in our societies and specially within
Jewish groups. In the end it is letters like the one here written by Mr.
P that will defeat the propaganda. Truth is the best and most powerful
antidote to lies regardless of how slick or expensively such lies are
produced. What we can learn from Mr. P is to find the courage in us to
express it.
Letter 1
P, I really haven’t known how to respond but Israel’s killing spree has
only increased since you sent this message and yes, my mind is made up.
Apart from destroying innocent Palestinian and now Lebanese lives,
Netanyahu’s mindless aggression will encourage antisemitism for another
50 years. I don’t care what semantics or legal arguments are used to
justify Israel’s military conduct. My heart and common sense tell me
something else.
I feel very angry but hope you are well.
Perhaps it would be best if we stick to music.
M
Letter 2
Dear M,
Thanks for your message and I am sorry you have been suffering. It must
feel like a horrible time for you. It’s clear from your message that you
are a peace loving romantic and would rather pursue diplomatic routes
with the Islamists than fight them directly. You are not alone in having
this feeling today, or in the historical context. In May 1940 when
Britain was already at war and Chamberlain was still prime minister, 281
vs 200 MPs still voted to appease rather than to fight Hitler. Even
after he stood down and Churchill took over and after Nazis had invaded
Poland and started the slaughter of our ancestors, still 10-15% of MPs
in Britain argued to appease Hitler rather than fight him - this was led
by Lord Halifax. Thankfully these appeasers were outvoted and the allies
managed to destroy Hitler and bomb his ideology into abeyance for a few
generations.
If the appeasers had won the day then you and I would have never been
born because our parents and grandparents would have been slaughtered in
Nazi camps. The well intended peace loving appeasers were on the wrong
side of history. Let me ask you if you think that in the last year
Israel has been under any less threat than the Sudetenland, Poland or
France were in 1939? My view: The threat is actually higher for Israel
today because the stated aims of annihilation of Israel’s enemies are
even more clearly stated in Iran’s manifesto than Hitler’s was, and Iran
and it’s proxies have the massive advantage of numbers and geographic
encirclement that Hitler never had. This leads me to conclude that the
appeasers like you today, are just as much on the wrong side of history
as the appeasers of 1939.
However, I am sure your motives come from a good place, and I sincerely
believe that you are a good peace-loving man. From your brief message
and our original discussions it feels that you have been convinced that
Israeli Jews have been the oppressors of Palestinians for generations.
You’ve also made it clear that you feel that the bombing of Gaza and
Lebanon is mindless violence, cruel and disproportionate.
I presume you know how many peace agreements have been brokered since
1947…. Each of which offered Palestine its own state. Every single one
of these were rejected by Palestine but accepted by Israel: The UN
Partition Plan (1947), Madrid Conference (1991), Oslo Accords
(1993–1995), Camp David Summit (2000), Taba Summit (2001), Road Map for
Peace (2003), Annapolis Conference (2007), 2010 Direct Talks, John
Kerry-led Peace Talks (2013–2014), and the Trump Peace Plan (2020). And
don’t forget the Gaza withdrawal in 2005. Not one of these have resulted
in any less desire by the Arabs to annihilate the Jews. The Jews have
been consistently willing to give Palestine its own state, and in fact
were the only people who agreed to the recommended partition plan in
1947…. which was rejected the Arabs and also the British. Palestinians
do not want their own state. They want Jews out of the entire Middle
East. They want the Jew to go back to where they came from… and because
we have no state to return to, what they really want is for us all to
die. I presented you with the evidence by an international delegation of
military generals that visited Gaza recently and who concluded the IDF
was governed to exceptionally high moral standards. You have described
these findings as “semantic or legal arguments” and seem to prefer the
argument of what your heart is telling you. You’re clearly upset by
civilian deaths in Lebanon as am I. I have many many Lebanese friends…
some of the finest and warmest people I know. That they’ve been held
hostage by Hezbollah is a tragedy and that some of their civilians have
died as a result of their government not being able to resist a de facto
Iranian takeover is horrendous. But after nearly 10,000 rockets being
fired into Israel, clearing the population out of 10% of Israel’s
territory, and the level of effort the IDF have used to be precise by
taking out the military leadership with the pagers, and trying to bomb
only military instalments and rocket launchers seems entirely
proportionate to me and to legal and military experts. Bear in mind that
Israel waited nearly a year to take any material action against Lebanon
at all… and Hezbollah’s attack on Oct 8th was completely unprovoked.
There is zero territorial dispute between Lebanon and Israel. I do hope
that the battle in Lebanon will be short and decisive and that the
Lebanese will have the resolve and resources to reclaim their country.
As you are a musician and a romantic it is natural that your emotional
response to the world takes on an even higher status than it would for
the average person, and I am sure that this heightened faculty serves
you well when you’re listening to Chopin Ballades. It may be less
valuable an asset when analysing the justification for war. War is
horrendous and it is understandable that anyone would recoil from the
images of death, and particularly the death of the innocent. I can tell
that you are suffering when confronted by these images and this reality
There is an important distinction between feeling good, and doing good.
I understand that images of war don’t make you feel good about yourself
and this leads to the naturally reflexive response of just urging it all
to stop. Here I would just remind you that you owe your life to the
courage of allies and Jews who lived before you and fought in the
trenches and gave their lives to grant you a lifetime of relative peace
that you’ve lived in. Your life of wallowing in classical music in the
safety and luxury of North London owes its existence to your courageous
ancestors who actually had the courage to look into the face of the
horror of warfare and do the right thing, even when it didn’t make them
feel good at all. That peace dividend is coming to an end. Islamists and
Jihadis have organised themselves internationally to attack the Jews in
their homeland and once again the world is being challenged to do the
right thing and resist another genocide. Like there was in 1939, there
will still be a group of people who are so caught up in cowardly denial
and the desire to feel good about themselves they will choose to be on
the wrong side of history. They will choose to appease. They will
pretend that a diplomatic solution with Islamists is possible even when
presented with the above overwhelming evidence that all past diplomatic
attempts have ended in failure, have been interpreted as signs of
Weakness by the Islamists and have given them time to rally and
consolidate their forces. Just like Lord Halifax and his shameful
legacy, you are presenting as one of those cowards today.
Lastly, you have explained that you fear Israel’s actions will drive
another 50 years of antisemitism. I have bad news for you. The presence
of antisemitism amongst the liberal elite that you and I live in was
revealed on October 8th, as celebrations broke out around the world to
celebrate the Pogrom against the Jews. You and I likely both felt that
antisemitism in our time was restricted to Jihadists in the Muslim
world, or deadhead white suprematists who never make it into the kind of
piano recitals that you and I like to attend. The bad news is that you
and I are already surrounded by the antisemites within the chattering
British middle-classes. They have revealed themselves to be reflexively
Jew hating by their instinctive support for the 3 blood libels against
Israel… that it is a colonialist settler state, that it is apartheid and
that it is genocidal. Three claims that are simply and demonstrably
untrue. It is likely that many of your non Jewish piano students are
themselves antisemitic and have grown up in antisemitic homes. It’s
quite possible that your anti-Israel stance coming from a Jew will give
you extra levers of ingratiation amongst this community. Your virtue
signalling and transparent desire to feel good about yourself will have
a heightened currency amongst your liberal elite friends, not because
your position is original or insightful, but because being Jewish and
anti-Israel (and therefore Pro-Islamism) makes you particularly
intriguing. You likely hope this will make it easier for you to
assimilate, to remain acceptable, and to avoid the wall of antisemitism
that you rightly feel is swelling internationally. Sadly it will not
help you because the liberal-elite distaste for Jews will ultimately be
directed to you as well… Just like the assimilators were thrown into the
gas chambers in WWII amongst the ultra-orthodox, you with your
distinctively Ashkenazy name, won’t be spared their disdain or their
cruelty.
What you say it is certainly true… that the actions of Netanyahu are
going to make life harder for the diaspora Jews, who make up around 50%
of the Jews on the planet. The war has made acceptable the more latent
and hidden antisemitism that was clearly rife within our communities.
All I would say to you is this: 50% of your ethnic community are
literally fighting for their lives and for the survival of Israel. They
are giving up their children to die in the IDF. They have entered
Lebanon because it was discovered that an Oct 7th like pogrom was being
planned and was imminent in the north of the country. These young
soldiers are the frontline against a 21st-century Jihad whose pogroms
promise to extend far beyond Israel as you will see on your TV from the
protests currently on our streets and will climax on Oct 7 2024. Every
time you hear a protestor calling “River to the Sea” you must recognise
that these people are not calling for a territorial redistribution… much
like the Middle Eastern Islamists have no interest in settling a
territorial dispute. These people are calling for an annihilation of
Jewry… and you are one of these Jews that their hatred extends to you.
So to conclude, I am sorry if the Israeli fight for survival makes you
feel a little uncomfortable in North London. It must be a terrible
affront to your karma that more people are likely speaking behind your
back about you in your favourite Coffee shops or in the Wigmore Hall,
while the children of your cousins in Israel are being slaughtered while
fighting against the massive odds in Lebanon and likely soon in Iran. I
am sure that this leaves you with a whole range of horrible and
fear-filled feelings. Nevertheless, I still hope that you will find a
way to dig deep and find a little dignity and courage. Even if this
creates a little discomfort, you owe it to your heritage to find a way
to become a better man.
https://www.restorationbulletin.com/p/october-7-attacks?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2327889&post_id=149909253
From one extreme to another extreme to yet another extreme is brilliant?
At least the God Chosen self rightousness of Judeo-Christian dogma leaves
her "Victim" status intact.

"Ali was a central figure in New Atheism since its beginnings.[28] She was
strongly associated with the movement, along with Christopher Hitchens, who
regarded Ali as "the most important public intellectual probably ever to
come out of Africa".[29] Writing in a column in November 2023, Ali
announced her conversion to the Christian faith, claiming that in her view
the Judeo-Christian tradition is the only answer to the problems of the
modern world."
badgolferman
2024-10-07 23:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor
Bob
2024-10-07 23:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers multitudes
of sins.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
badgolferman
2024-10-08 00:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers multitudes
of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
Bob
2024-10-08 00:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers multitudes
of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
Amusing digression, but I'm confident you won't be able to cite one example
of me trying to rewrite history.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Bob
2024-10-08 17:40:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers multitudes
of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
I'm on the wrong side of history?
In another thread you wrote "I received a huge compliment from our ride
leader when he told me I've
come a long way on the bike."
Most kids get over that sort of bragging by the time they're 21.

Your asserting that riding in rain is more fun because it's more scary, is
scary!
Your riding history would be atrocious for the ride leader to even talk to
another adult like that. Maybe he thought it might encourage you enough to
pay at least a bit of attention, hoping you won't kill any of his friends.

At least you'll probably never get to be old, because you'll be history
before you even know it. :-)
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
badgolferman
2024-10-08 19:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their
agitators, especially considering the history of Jewish
persecution and the stated aims of her enemies. Nothing will
change until one side totally dominates the other. It is then
that there will be a semblance of lasting peace.
-- "Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach
it." ~ Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers
multitudes of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
I'm on the wrong side of history?
In another thread you wrote "I received a huge compliment from our
ride leader when he told me I've
come a long way on the bike."
Most kids get over that sort of bragging by the time they're 21.
Your asserting that riding in rain is more fun because it's more
scary, is scary!
Your riding history would be atrocious for the ride leader to even
talk to another adult like that. Maybe he thought it might encourage
you enough to pay at least a bit of attention, hoping you won't kill
any of his friends.
At least you'll probably never get to be old, because you'll be
history before you even know it. :-)
Bob, you're becoming like a shrill woman now.
--
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity." ~ Frank
Leahy
Bob
2024-10-08 20:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their
agitators, especially considering the history of Jewish
persecution and the stated aims of her enemies. Nothing will
change until one side totally dominates the other. It is then
that there will be a semblance of lasting peace.
-- "Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach
it." ~ Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers
multitudes of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
I'm on the wrong side of history?
In another thread you wrote "I received a huge compliment from our
ride leader when he told me I've
come a long way on the bike."
Most kids get over that sort of bragging by the time they're 21.
Your asserting that riding in rain is more fun because it's more
scary, is scary!
Your riding history would be atrocious for the ride leader to even
talk to another adult like that. Maybe he thought it might encourage
you enough to pay at least a bit of attention, hoping you won't kill
any of his friends.
At least you'll probably never get to be old, because you'll be
history before you even know it. :-)
Bob, you're becoming like a shrill woman now.
--
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity." ~ Frank
Leahy
Could have guessed you'd return to projecting, again. Seems to be your only
forte.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
badgolferman
2024-10-08 20:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their
agitators, especially considering the history of Jewish
persecution and the stated aims of her enemies. Nothing will
change until one side totally dominates the other. It is then
that there will be a semblance of lasting peace.
-- "Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach
it." ~ Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers
multitudes of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
I'm on the wrong side of history?
In another thread you wrote "I received a huge compliment from our
ride leader when he told me I've
come a long way on the bike."
Most kids get over that sort of bragging by the time they're 21.
Your asserting that riding in rain is more fun because it's more
scary, is scary!
Your riding history would be atrocious for the ride leader to even
talk to another adult like that. Maybe he thought it might encourage
you enough to pay at least a bit of attention, hoping you won't kill
any of his friends.
At least you'll probably never get to be old, because you'll be
history before you even know it. :-)
Bob, you're becoming like a shrill woman now.
--
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity." ~ Frank
Leahy
Could have guessed you'd return to projecting, again. Seems to be your only
forte.
KABLAMMM!!!

You just broke another irony meter!
Bob
2024-10-08 20:52:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their
agitators, especially considering the history of Jewish
persecution and the stated aims of her enemies. Nothing will
change until one side totally dominates the other. It is then
that there will be a semblance of lasting peace.
-- "Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach
it." ~ Flannery O'Connor
"Every right"?
Self bestowed entitlement satisfies the head nodders, and covers
multitudes of sins.
Bob, you’re on the wrong side of history. Stop trying rewrite it.
I'm on the wrong side of history?
In another thread you wrote "I received a huge compliment from our
ride leader when he told me I've
come a long way on the bike."
Most kids get over that sort of bragging by the time they're 21.
Your asserting that riding in rain is more fun because it's more
scary, is scary!
Your riding history would be atrocious for the ride leader to even
talk to another adult like that. Maybe he thought it might encourage
you enough to pay at least a bit of attention, hoping you won't kill
any of his friends.
At least you'll probably never get to be old, because you'll be
history before you even know it. :-)
Bob, you're becoming like a shrill woman now.
--
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity." ~ Frank
Leahy
Could have guessed you'd return to projecting, again. Seems to be your only
forte.
KABLAMMM!!!
You just broke another irony meter!
If you say so.
But accepting that you're the only person who can hear that shrill voice in
your head could be your beacon to sanity.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Charlie M. 1958
2024-10-09 12:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
I think the world would be a better place if Islam had never existed.
But it's not going away, and no war is going to end it globally because
it is too widespread. And as long as it dominates the middle east there
will be no peace. The Israelis have nuclear weapons and the backing of
the west, while Islamists have the sheer numbers. Your scenario is
little more than a pipe dream. I see no way for either side to "win".
Bob
2024-10-09 15:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies. Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other. It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
I think the world would be a better place if Islam had never existed.
But it's not going away, and no war is going to end it globally because
it is too widespread. And as long as it dominates the middle east there
will be no peace. The Israelis have nuclear weapons and the backing of
the west, while Islamists have the sheer numbers. Your scenario is
little more than a pipe dream. I see no way for either side to "win".
FWIW I entirely agree.
However I believe Israel's religious history could repeat itself with
internal bickering similar to what preceded the fall of their kingdom.

""The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin came immediately
after an anti-violence rally in support of the Oslo peace process.[1]

Before the rally, Rabin was disparaged personally by right-wing
conservatives and Likud leaders who perceived the peace process as an
attempt to forfeit the occupied territories and a capitulation to Israel's
enemies.[2][3]

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that
withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy.[4] The Likud leader and
future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of
being "removed from Jewish tradition [...] and Jewish values".[2][3]
Right-wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited
territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the
Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the
accords.[5][6] Some rabbis proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional
Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo
Accords would endanger Jewish lives.[5][7]

Rallies organized by Likud and other right-wing groups featured depictions
of Rabin in a Nazi SS uniform, or in the crosshairs of a gun.[2][3]
Protesters compared the Labor party to the Nazis and Rabin to Adolf
Hitler[5] and chanted, "Rabin is a murderer" and "Rabin is a
traitor".[8][9] In July 1995, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession
featuring a coffin and hangman's noose at an anti-Rabin rally where
protesters chanted, "Death to Rabin"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin#:~:text=The%20assassination%20of%20Israeli,chanted%2C%20%22Death%20to%20Rabin%22.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Skeezix LaRocca
2024-10-10 00:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by badgolferman
Post by Fred Exley
Brilliant luminary and Islam survivor (sans clitoris) Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Israel has every right to defend itself and root out their agitators,
especially considering the history of Jewish persecution and the stated
aims of her enemies.  Nothing will change until one side totally
dominates the other.  It is then that there will be a semblance of
lasting peace.
I think the world would be a better place if Islam had never existed.
But it's not going away, and no war is going to end it globally because
it is too widespread. And as long as it dominates the middle east there
will be no peace. The Israelis have nuclear weapons and the backing of
the west, while Islamists have the sheer numbers. Your scenario is an
little more than a pipe dream. I see no way for either side to "win".
I would agree with you on this, 100%

When Israel retaliates against Iran, things are really going to escalate.
--
We all do better when we all do better.

Paul Wellstone
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