Discussion:
famous atheist identifies as cultural christian
(too old to reply)
badgolferman
2024-04-02 17:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday



https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Sharx335
2024-04-02 17:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?

I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.

My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.

Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.

VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
Dexter
2024-04-04 14:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, Good
Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system, for
example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian idea of
a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the culture of
the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I have
absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast beef
and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own OPINIONS,
but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------

So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
badgolferman
2024-04-04 17:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Values are shared among like people, opinions are mostly personal.
Sharx335
2024-04-04 18:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Values are shared among like people, opinions are mostly personal.
Hmmmm. That is sort of "circular". Opinions might be shared, too. And,
of course, values could be personal. Not being picky, I value input on
this--if I could answer it myself, I surely would.
Bob
2024-04-05 06:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Values are shared among like people, opinions are mostly personal.
Hmmmm. That is sort of "circular". Opinions might be shared, too. And,
of course, values could be personal. Not being picky, I value input on
this--if I could answer it myself, I surely would.
How about, "Values are opinions embedded in self righteousness"? ;-)
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Sharx335
2024-04-05 16:47:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Values are shared among like people, opinions are mostly personal.
Hmmmm. That is sort of "circular".  Opinions might be shared, too.
And, of course, values could be personal. Not being picky, I value
input on this--if I could answer it myself, I surely would.
How about, "Values are opinions embedded in self righteousness"? ;-)
I listen, carefully for, example, haughty tone and watch for, say, the
curled lip. Various clues implying judgement.
Dexter
2024-04-07 01:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Values are shared among like people, opinions are mostly personal.
Hmmmm. That is sort of "circular".  Opinions might be shared, too. And,
of course, values could be personal. Not being picky, I value input on
this--if I could answer it myself, I surely would.
How about, "Values are opinions embedded in self righteousness"? ;-)
I listen, carefully for, example, haughty tone and watch for, say, the curled
lip. Various clues implying judgement.
-------------------------------------

Wow! Doing so is certainly worthwhile. But do you ever listen to
yourself? Seriously? Do you think you're the only one who listens
to the tone and tenor of others' words? Are you implying that *you*
don't judge?

We all judge, it's the nature of being a prey animal. It served us well
before we became the top preditor on the planet.
Sharx335
2024-04-07 07:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Values are shared among like people, opinions are mostly personal.
Hmmmm. That is sort of "circular".  Opinions might be shared, too. And,
of course, values could be personal. Not being picky, I value input on
this--if I could answer it myself, I surely would.
How about, "Values are opinions embedded in self righteousness"? ;-)
I listen, carefully for, example, haughty tone and watch for, say, the curled
lip. Various clues implying judgement.
-------------------------------------
Wow! Doing so is certainly worthwhile. But do you ever listen to
yourself? Seriously? Do you think you're the only one who listens
to the tone and tenor of others' words? Are you implying that *you*
don't judge?
We all judge, it's the nature of being a prey animal. It served us well
before we became the top preditor on the planet.
Oh, I DO judge. Naive idealists who so often prepare and read the
newscasts DESERVE all the judging possible.
badgolferman
2024-04-07 12:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
We all judge, it's the nature of being a prey animal. It served us
well before we became the top preditor on the planet.
Agreed. Try telling that in an AA meeting though...
--
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been
fooled." ~ Mark Twain
Dexter
2024-04-07 20:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
We all judge, it's the nature of being a prey animal. It served us
well before we became the top preditor on the planet.
Agreed. Try telling that in an AA meeting though...
-------------------------------------

Now that would be shit stirring. I'm tempted.
Sharx335
2024-04-04 18:07:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, Good
Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system, for
example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian idea of
a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the culture of
the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I have
absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast beef
and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own OPINIONS,
but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
Dexter
2024-04-05 04:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------

I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.

Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.

Seems I had to do a bit of reading.

I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.

"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
their nature and scope:

Values:
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.

They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.

Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.

Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.

Beliefs:
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.

They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.

Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.

Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.


In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."

End of quote. --------------

I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.

For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.

It's a conundrum.

For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?

I wish Rob were here.
Dexter
2024-04-05 04:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Boy did I get sidetracked. Values vs Beliefs. How I got there
I cannot say. But the question was what's the difference between
values and opinions.

It seems I conflated beliefs with opinions. And that's not
even close.

Wish I could edit or retract that post but... there it is. Let
the pummeling begin.
Sharx335
2024-04-05 05:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Boy did I get sidetracked. Values vs Beliefs. How I got there
I cannot say. But the question was what's the difference between
values and opinions.
It seems I conflated beliefs with opinions. And that's not
even close.
Wish I could edit or retract that post but... there it is. Let
the pummeling begin.
I read then re-read your info using AI. Re-stating: Values are
over-riding, all encompassing...values. Beliefs are opinions not
necessarily based on proven fact. Opinions derive from different people,
hopefully taking the same FACTS and interpreting them using their
personal VALUES. How's that?
Dexter
2024-04-05 06:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya
really think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty
about, say, Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR
education system, for example, allows students days off on non
Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our
Canadian idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to
maintain the culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's
and I have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a
CANADIAN, not an Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit
down for a, say, roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a
strong country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Boy did I get sidetracked. Values vs Beliefs. How I got there
I cannot say. But the question was what's the difference between
values and opinions.
It seems I conflated beliefs with opinions. And that's not
even close.
Wish I could edit or retract that post but... there it is. Let
the pummeling begin.
I read then re-read your info using AI. Re-stating: Values are over-riding,
all encompassing...values. Beliefs are opinions not necessarily based on
proven fact. Opinions derive from different people, hopefully taking the same
FACTS and interpreting them using their personal VALUES. How's that?
-------------------------------------

Somewhere in there Values were related to principles, which shows up
in AA's saying "Principles before personalities."

As for your take, I think beliefs are related to opinions, and the two
meanings largely overlap in everyday language. Unfortunately, beliefs
or opinions don't always derive from facts. I'm sure you've seen endless
examples of that even here in ARAA, as well as in your every day life.

It's not uncommon around here for beliefs to be stated as facts.
Ted H
2024-04-05 13:39:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 05 Apr 2024 06:00:46 +0000,
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural
Christian' and is 'horrified' by promotion of
Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
I know, I know....all this about so-called
"inclusivity". But, ya really think, that, say, over
in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, Good
Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR
education system, for example, allows students days
off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better
than our Canadian idea of a "cultural mosaic" where
people are encouraged to maintain the culture of the
area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in
the early 1800's and I have absolute NO desire to
travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit
down for a, say, roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding
dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR
values make for a strong country NOT, I repeat, NOT
DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all
entitled to our own OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
A reasonable expectation in these parts.
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Boy did I get sidetracked. Values vs Beliefs. How I got
there I cannot say. But the question was what's the
difference between values and opinions.
It seems I conflated beliefs with opinions. And that's not
even close.
Wish I could edit or retract that post but... there it is.
Let the pummeling begin.
Ha. On araa!?
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I read then re-read your info using AI. Re-stating: Values
are over-riding, all encompassing...values. Beliefs are
opinions not necessarily based on proven fact. Opinions derive
from different people, hopefully taking the same FACTS and
interpreting them using their personal VALUES. How's that?
-------------------------------------
Somewhere in there Values were related to principles, which
shows up in AA's saying "Principles before personalities."
As for your take, I think beliefs are related to opinions, and
the two meanings largely overlap in everyday language.
Unfortunately, beliefs or opinions don't always derive from
facts. I'm sure you've seen endless examples of that even here
in ARAA, as well as in your every day life.
Generally agree with all this, but there also seems there might be
a slight distinction in that values tend more to reflect a group
viewpoint and beliefs are more individualized. Surely there is
overlap in that distinction too, but it seems at least somewhat
relevant to me.

I appreciate your digging on this, Dexter.
Post by Dexter
It's not uncommon around here for beliefs to be stated as
facts.
Boy, isn't that the truth!
--
Ted H.
Sharx335
2024-04-05 16:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya
really think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty
about, say, Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR
education system, for example, allows students days off on non
Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our
Canadian idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to
maintain the culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's
and I have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a
CANADIAN, not an Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit
down for a, say, roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a
strong country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Boy did I get sidetracked. Values vs Beliefs. How I got there
I cannot say. But the question was what's the difference between
values and opinions.
It seems I conflated beliefs with opinions. And that's not
even close.
Wish I could edit or retract that post but... there it is. Let
the pummeling begin.
I read then re-read your info using AI. Re-stating: Values are over-riding,
all encompassing...values. Beliefs are opinions not necessarily based on
proven fact. Opinions derive from different people, hopefully taking the same
FACTS and interpreting them using their personal VALUES. How's that?
-------------------------------------
Somewhere in there Values were related to principles, which shows up
in AA's saying "Principles before personalities."
As for your take, I think beliefs are related to opinions, and the two
meanings largely overlap in everyday language. Unfortunately, beliefs
or opinions don't always derive from facts. I'm sure you've seen endless
examples of that even here in ARAA, as well as in your every day life.
It's not uncommon around here for beliefs to be stated as facts.
It was ever thus, no matter what the media. Now, even straight news
stories on major media seem all too often laced with opinion...sometimes
even the TONE or FACIAL EXPRESSION of the news reader can alter the
meaning of the words spoken. Not so much in the old days with announcers
such as Cronkite or Huntley or Brinkley.
Dexter
2024-04-07 02:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian'
and is 'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But,
ya really think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's
patooty about, say, Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya
think THEIR education system, for example, allows students days
off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our
Canadian idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are
encouraged to maintain the culture of the area from whence they
immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early
1800's and I have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am
a CANADIAN, not an Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave
to sit down for a, say, roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for
a strong country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our
own OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Boy did I get sidetracked. Values vs Beliefs. How I got there
I cannot say. But the question was what's the difference between
values and opinions.
It seems I conflated beliefs with opinions. And that's not
even close.
Wish I could edit or retract that post but... there it is. Let
the pummeling begin.
I read then re-read your info using AI. Re-stating: Values are
over-riding, all encompassing...values. Beliefs are opinions not
necessarily based on proven fact. Opinions derive from different people,
hopefully taking the same FACTS and interpreting them using their
personal VALUES. How's that?
-------------------------------------
Somewhere in there Values were related to principles, which shows up
in AA's saying "Principles before personalities."
As for your take, I think beliefs are related to opinions, and the two
meanings largely overlap in everyday language. Unfortunately, beliefs
or opinions don't always derive from facts. I'm sure you've seen endless
examples of that even here in ARAA, as well as in your every day life.
It's not uncommon around here for beliefs to be stated as facts.
It was ever thus, no matter what the media. Now, even straight news stories
on major media seem all too often laced with opinion...sometimes even the
TONE or FACIAL EXPRESSION of the news reader can alter the meaning of the
words spoken. Not so much in the old days with announcers such as Cronkite
or Huntley or Brinkley.
-------------------------------------

The media has changed significantly since the time of Cronkite, Huntley
and Brinkley. Cronkite and his ilk are dead. News at 5 and more at 11
is a thing of the past. The 24 hour news cycle demands content around
the clock. There is no straight news anymore. It's often, but not always,
infused with the newsreaders' point of view allowed by those who pay them.

You can long for the past but it ain't coming back.
Sharx335
2024-04-05 05:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
End of quote. --------------
I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
I wish Rob were here.
Your contribution IS of great help. I still aver that common VALUES are
the ultimate bonding agent of a nation or society. Even if some
individual BELIEFS may vary, sometimes widely.
Dexter
2024-04-07 02:52:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya
really think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty
about, say, Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR
education system, for example, allows students days off on non Hindu
holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain
the culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's
and I have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN,
not an Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a,
say, roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a
strong country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political
beliefs, superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
End of quote. --------------
I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
I wish Rob were here.
Your contribution IS of great help. I still aver that common VALUES are the
ultimate bonding agent of a nation or society. Even if some individual
BELIEFS may vary, sometimes widely.
-------------------------------------

Well now, I don't particularly disagree with you. But ther seems to be
a vast chasm in our core values revealed over the course of the last
8 years or so. "Common" values don't see too common umongst
us any longer.

Take honesty for example. Is that a common value here in North
America; the U.S. specifically? It isn't unusual to have honesty
as a topic in a meeting. All are quick to say they're "not talking
about cash register honesty." Cash register honesty isn't universally
valued here in the U.S. I'd venture to say, the ability to juggle
he dollars taken in or paid out in ways deceptive and dishonest
are widely admired by a significant segment of the U.S. population.

How about honesty in the words spoken to each other?
Everybody tells "white lies." White lies are what allow us
to tolerate each other day to day. Don't you think so?
But where is the line that distinguishes between a white lie
and a malicious or self serving lie? It really isn't a line, is it?
It's more fuzzy than that. So, honesty comes in a wide variety
of flavors. Which one of them represents a core value of our
society?

What other core value unites our society? Any suggestions?
badgolferman
2024-04-07 13:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
How about honesty in the words spoken to each other?
Everybody tells "white lies." White lies are what allow us
to tolerate each other day to day. Don't you think so?
But where is the line that distinguishes between a white lie
and a malicious or self serving lie? It really isn't a line, is it?
It's more fuzzy than that. So, honesty comes in a wide variety
of flavors. Which one of them represents a core value of our
society?
What other core value unites our society? Any suggestions?
At one time I would have said pride in country, but I don't see that
anymore. Progressives have made the "United States of America" become
a slur word. There's nothing united about us anymore and the concept
of the melting pot has been replaced by multiculturalism.

One value I think we could all agree on is generosity. Americans are
the most charitable nation in the world, especially when natural
disasters occur in other areas. However opinions differ on how that
charity should be provided to help the disaffected rather than see it
go into crooked politicians' pockets.
Dexter
2024-04-07 21:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
How about honesty in the words spoken to each other?
Everybody tells "white lies." White lies are what allow us
to tolerate each other day to day. Don't you think so?
But where is the line that distinguishes between a white lie
and a malicious or self serving lie? It really isn't a line, is it?
It's more fuzzy than that. So, honesty comes in a wide variety
of flavors. Which one of them represents a core value of our
society?
What other core value unites our society? Any suggestions?
At one time I would have said pride in country, but I don't see that
anymore. Progressives have made the "United States of America" become
a slur word. There's nothing united about us anymore and the concept
of the melting pot has been replaced by multiculturalism.
One value I think we could all agree on is generosity. Americans are
the most charitable nation in the world, especially when natural
disasters occur in other areas. However opinions differ on how that
charity should be provided to help the disaffected rather than see it
go into crooked politicians' pockets.
-------------------------------------

Ah, yes. Progressives=bad. All this country's ills are the result
of progressives. This is not a very nuanced view, I'd say. With
greater than 330 million in population, the unity of American
citizens is pretty easily subject to internal fractures. The lessons
of the last eight years have demonstrated that quite dramatically.
And those lessons were hardly the fault of progressives save for
their resistance to the actions of a singular player in our political
drama and his cronies. A drama that hasn't yet seen its final act.

I doubt the world as a whole sees the "United States of America"
as a slur but rather a formidably powerful nation wracked by
a strange attraction to an individual whose ideas and actions
are a complete anathema to the values of a nation who saw
itself as a generous and stabilizing force on the world stage.

And they are frightened and not of progressives either.

The ease with which you, in your mind, divide the U.S. into
two camps, Progressives and whatever you wish to call
yourself is not really surprising. It's the lazy way to explain
the complexity and diversity of our beliefs.

By the way, what values inspired your pride in America?
You mentioned generosity, was there anything else?
Bob
2024-04-07 22:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
How about honesty in the words spoken to each other?
Everybody tells "white lies." White lies are what allow us
to tolerate each other day to day. Don't you think so?
But where is the line that distinguishes between a white lie
and a malicious or self serving lie? It really isn't a line, is it?
It's more fuzzy than that. So, honesty comes in a wide variety
of flavors. Which one of them represents a core value of our
society?
What other core value unites our society? Any suggestions?
At one time I would have said pride in country, but I don't see that
anymore. Progressives have made the "United States of America" become
a slur word. There's nothing united about us anymore and the concept
of the melting pot has been replaced by multiculturalism.
One value I think we could all agree on is generosity. Americans are
the most charitable nation in the world, especially when natural
disasters occur in other areas. However opinions differ on how that
charity should be provided to help the disaffected rather than see it
go into crooked politicians' pockets.
I checked your "most charitable" claim on wiki, but a disclaimer (obsolete)
there spurred me to search elsewhere.

The table in the following link seems valid to me..
Some here may find the results interesting.
.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-charitable-countries
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
badgolferman
2024-04-13 11:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
How about honesty in the words spoken to each other?
Everybody tells "white lies." White lies are what allow us
to tolerate each other day to day. Don't you think so?
But where is the line that distinguishes between a white lie
and a malicious or self serving lie? It really isn't a line, is it?
It's more fuzzy than that. So, honesty comes in a wide variety
of flavors. Which one of them represents a core value of our
society?
What other core value unites our society? Any suggestions?
At one time I would have said pride in country, but I don't see that
anymore. Progressives have made the "United States of America" become
a slur word. There's nothing united about us anymore and the concept
of the melting pot has been replaced by multiculturalism.
One value I think we could all agree on is generosity. Americans are
the most charitable nation in the world, especially when natural
disasters occur in other areas. However opinions differ on how that
charity should be provided to help the disaffected rather than see it
go into crooked politicians' pockets.
I checked your "most charitable" claim on wiki, but a disclaimer (obsolete)
there spurred me to search elsewhere.
The table in the following link seems valid to me..
Some here may find the results interesting.
.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-charitable-countries
I’m sure you know there are more ways of being charitable than just
donating money. Some of us are literally bleeding from our charity…

https://ibb.co/vc5Dr8j
Bob
2024-04-13 12:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
How about honesty in the words spoken to each other?
Everybody tells "white lies." White lies are what allow us
to tolerate each other day to day. Don't you think so?
But where is the line that distinguishes between a white lie
and a malicious or self serving lie? It really isn't a line, is it?
It's more fuzzy than that. So, honesty comes in a wide variety
of flavors. Which one of them represents a core value of our
society?
What other core value unites our society? Any suggestions?
At one time I would have said pride in country, but I don't see that
anymore. Progressives have made the "United States of America" become
a slur word. There's nothing united about us anymore and the concept
of the melting pot has been replaced by multiculturalism.
One value I think we could all agree on is generosity. Americans are
the most charitable nation in the world, especially when natural
disasters occur in other areas. However opinions differ on how that
charity should be provided to help the disaffected rather than see it
go into crooked politicians' pockets.
I checked your "most charitable" claim on wiki, but a disclaimer (obsolete)
there spurred me to search elsewhere.
The table in the following link seems valid to me..
Some here may find the results interesting.
.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-charitable-countries
I’m sure you know there are more ways of being charitable than just
donating money. Some of us are literally bleeding from our charity…
https://ibb.co/vc5Dr8j
If you say so.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Charlie M. 1958
2024-04-06 02:16:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
End of quote. --------------
I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group don't
share the same values. Let's look at the examples in your quote abae:

Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by badgolferman
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
I don't think anyone in this group would say they don't share those
values. The conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see)
these values reflected in certain opinions or behaviors.

(I would point out that that this holds true for society in general, and
not just our little group.)
Bob
2024-04-06 05:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by badgolferman
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
End of quote. --------------
I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group don't
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by badgolferman
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
I don't think anyone in this group would say they don't share those
values. The conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see)
these values reflected in certain opinions or behaviors.
(I would point out that that this holds true for society in general, and
not just our little group.)
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT
Arguably, Artificial Intelligence remains an oxymoron.
EG: justice mercy, respect and freedom can, and often if not mostly,
contradict each other.

https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people are
predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People also tend
to believe that those values are “right” because they are the values of
their particular culture."

Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?

Seems to me Sharx introduced the word “Values” into this thread merely to
elevate *his* own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating *my* opinions, not
offending you.
Dexter
2024-04-07 03:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I know....all this
about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that, say, over in
India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good Friday, or Christmas,
for example. Ya think THEIR education system, >>>>> for example, allows
students days off on non Hindu holidays? >>>>>
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
End of quote. --------------
I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group don't
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by Dexter
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
I don't think anyone in this group would say they don't share those
values. The conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see)
these values reflected in certain opinions or behaviors.
(I would point out that that this holds true for society in general, and
not just our little group.)
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT
Arguably, Artificial Intelligence remains an oxymoron.
EG: justice mercy, respect and freedom can, and often if not mostly,
contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by badgolferman
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people are
predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People also tend
to believe that those values are “right” because they are the values of
their particular culture."
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?
Seems to me Sharx introduced the word “Values” into this thread merely to
elevate his own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions, not
offending you.
-------------------------------------

Your point is noted. And It's precisely why I quoted the words of ChatGPT.
It's a starting point only. ChatGPT is in no way an authority.

"Values are individual beliefs..." That's an entirely valid but incomplete
definition, I think. And it's why I got sidetracked in my initial search.

So, what's the difference between beliefs and opinions? I think an
opinion is merely an an expression of one's belief. Belief can be,
but isn't necessarily based on facts.

I think your take on -Richard- -Dawkins'- the famous atheist's position
is right on the money. I agree with him Though not for exactly the same
reason.

But that's a topic for another post.
Bob
2024-04-07 04:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I know....all this
about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that, say, over in
India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good Friday, or Christmas,
for example. Ya think THEIR education system, >>>>> for example, allows
students days off on non Hindu holidays? >>>>>
Post by Charlie M. 1958
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS. We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
I don't have a ready answer to this question. Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it. Let's see what ChatGPT said. It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
End of quote. --------------
I'd say that's a good start, It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict. In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values. Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups. In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group don't
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by Dexter
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
I don't think anyone in this group would say they don't share those
values. The conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see)
these values reflected in certain opinions or behaviors.
(I would point out that that this holds true for society in general, and
not just our little group.)
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT
Arguably, Artificial Intelligence remains an oxymoron.
EG: justice mercy, respect and freedom can, and often if not mostly,
contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by badgolferman
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people are
predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People also tend
to believe that those values are “right” because they are the values of
their particular culture."
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?
Seems to me Sharx introduced the word “Values” into this thread merely to
elevate his own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions, not
offending you.
-------------------------------------
Your point is noted. And It's precisely why I quoted the words of ChatGPT.
It's a starting point only. ChatGPT is in no way an authority.
"Values are individual beliefs..." That's an entirely valid but incomplete
definition, I think. And it's why I got sidetracked in my initial search.
So, what's the difference between beliefs and opinions? I think an
opinion is merely an an expression of one's belief. Belief can be,
but isn't necessarily based on facts.
Obviously the meaning of words can be dependent on the context of those
words and the users of those words, eg:- "freedom is another word for
nothing left to lose"

For me, beliefs can be expressed in assertions I'm confident I can defend
when/if challenged, while opinions are expressions of conclusions I'm
willing to admit I may have arrived at without adequate investigation.

Given that preceding paragraph infers my beliefs *are* the consequences of
adequate investigation, I can only grin and and say, "Shit happens"! 😏
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Sharx335
2024-04-07 07:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian'
and is
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I
know....all this
about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that, say, over in
India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good Friday, or Christmas,
for example. Ya think THEIR education system, >>>>> for example, allows
students days off on non Hindu holidays?  >>>>> >>>>> I believe the
"melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to
maintain the
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
My family, for example, came over from England in the
early 1800's and I
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN,
not an
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a,
say, roast
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values
make for a strong
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled
to our own
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Post by Dexter
I don't have a ready answer to this question.  Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Post by Dexter
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Post by Dexter
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it.  Let's see what ChatGPT said.  It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
Post by Dexter
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
Post by Dexter
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Post by Dexter
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Post by Dexter
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
Post by Dexter
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Post by Dexter
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Post by Dexter
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
Post by Dexter
End of quote.  --------------
I'd say that's a good start,  It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
Post by Dexter
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict.  In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values.  Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups.  In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
Post by Dexter
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
Post by Dexter
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this
group don't > share the same values. Let's look at the examples in
Post by Dexter
   Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
I don't think anyone in this group would say they don't share
those > values. The conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or
don't see) > these values reflected in certain opinions or behaviors.
Post by Dexter
(I would point out that that this holds true for society in
general, and > not just our little group.)
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT Arguably, Artificial
Intelligence remains an oxymoron.
EG: justice mercy, respect and freedom can, and often if not mostly,
contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by badgolferman
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people are
predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People also tend
to believe that those values are “right” because they are the values of
their particular culture."
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?
Seems to me Sharx  introduced the word “Values” into this thread
merely to
elevate his own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions, not
offending you.
-------------------------------------
Your point is noted.  And It's precisely why I quoted the words of
ChatGPT. It's a starting point only.  ChatGPT is in no way an authority.
"Values are individual beliefs..."  That's an entirely valid but
incomplete definition, I think.  And it's why I got sidetracked in my
initial search.
So, what's the difference between beliefs and opinions?  I think an
opinion is merely an an expression of one's belief.  Belief can be,
but isn't necessarily based on facts.
Obviously the meaning of words can be dependent on the context of those
words and the users of those words, eg:- "freedom is another word for
nothing left to lose"
For me, beliefs can be expressed in assertions I'm confident I can defend
when/if challenged, while opinions are expressions of conclusions I'm
willing to admit I may have arrived at without adequate investigation.
Given that preceding paragraph infers my beliefs *are* the consequences of
adequate investigation, I can only grin and and say, "Shit happens"! 😏
Indeed, it does happen, all too frequently.
Bob
2024-04-07 07:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Bob
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian'
and is
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I
know....all this
about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that, say, over in
India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good Friday, or Christmas,
for example. Ya think THEIR education system, >>>>> for example, allows
students days off on non Hindu holidays?  >>>>> >>>>> I believe the
"melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to
maintain the
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
My family, for example, came over from England in the
early 1800's and I
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN,
not an
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a,
say, roast
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values
make for a strong
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled
to our own
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
-------------------------------------
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Post by Dexter
So, what's the difference between values and opinions?
Surely, YOU will tell ME what they are.
-------------------------------------
Post by Dexter
I don't have a ready answer to this question.  Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Post by Dexter
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Post by Dexter
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it.  Let's see what ChatGPT said.  It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
Post by Dexter
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
Post by Dexter
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Post by Dexter
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Post by Dexter
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
Post by Dexter
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Post by Dexter
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Post by Dexter
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
Post by Dexter
End of quote.  --------------
I'd say that's a good start,  It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
Post by Dexter
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict.  In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values.  Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups.  In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
Post by Dexter
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
Post by Dexter
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this
group don't > share the same values. Let's look at the examples in
Post by Dexter
   Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
I don't think anyone in this group would say they don't share
those > values. The conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or
don't see) > these values reflected in certain opinions or behaviors.
Post by Dexter
(I would point out that that this holds true for society in
general, and > not just our little group.)
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT Arguably, Artificial
Intelligence remains an oxymoron.
EG: justice mercy, respect and freedom can, and often if not mostly,
contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by badgolferman
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people are
predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People also tend
to believe that those values are “right” because they are the values of
their particular culture."
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?
Seems to me Sharx  introduced the word “Values” into this thread
merely to
elevate his own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions, not
offending you.
-------------------------------------
Your point is noted.  And It's precisely why I quoted the words of
ChatGPT. It's a starting point only.  ChatGPT is in no way an authority.
"Values are individual beliefs..."  That's an entirely valid but
incomplete definition, I think.  And it's why I got sidetracked in my
initial search.
So, what's the difference between beliefs and opinions?  I think an
opinion is merely an an expression of one's belief.  Belief can be,
but isn't necessarily based on facts.
Obviously the meaning of words can be dependent on the context of those
words and the users of those words, eg:- "freedom is another word for
nothing left to lose"
For me, beliefs can be expressed in assertions I'm confident I can defend
when/if challenged, while opinions are expressions of conclusions I'm
willing to admit I may have arrived at without adequate investigation.
Given that preceding paragraph infers my beliefs *are* the consequences of
adequate investigation, I can only grin and and say, "Shit happens"! 😏
Indeed, it does happen, all too frequently.
Probably thanks to my newly adopting discretion as a fundamental "value", I
don't recall it happening to *me* at all since this return to araa.
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Dexter
2024-04-07 21:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I know....all
this >>>>about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that,
say, over in >>>>India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good
Friday, or Christmas, >>>>for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
for example, allows >>>>students days off on non Hindu holidays?  >>>>>
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to
maintain the >>>>>>>>> culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
My family, for example, came over from England in the early
1800's and I >>>>>>>>> have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a
CANADIAN, not an >>>>>>>>> Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit
down for a, say, roast >>>>>>>>> beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make
for a strong >>>>>>>>> country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to
our own >>>>>>>>> OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS. >>>>>>>>
------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>> So, what's the difference
between values and opinions? >>>>>>> >>> Surely, YOU will tell ME what they
are. >>>>>> -------------------------------------
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
I don't have a ready answer to this question.  Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Post by Dexter
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Post by Dexter
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it.  Let's see what ChatGPT said.  It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
Post by Dexter
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
Post by Dexter
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Post by Dexter
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Post by Dexter
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
Post by Dexter
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Post by Dexter
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Post by Dexter
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
Post by Dexter
End of quote.  --------------
I'd say that's a good start,  It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
Post by Dexter
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict.  In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values.  Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups.  In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
Post by Dexter
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
Post by Dexter
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group
don't > share the same values. Let's look at the examples in your quote
abae: >>>>> >   Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect. >>>>> > I don't
think anyone in this group would say they don't share those > values. The
conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see) > these values
reflected in certain opinions or behaviors. >>>>> > (I would point out that
that this holds true for society in general, and > not just our little
group.) >>>>> > > > >
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT Arguably, Artificial
Intelligence remains an oxymoron. EG: justice mercy, respect and
freedom can, and often if not mostly, contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people
are predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People
also tend to believe that those values are “right” because they are
the values of their particular culture."
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?
Seems to me Sharx  introduced the word “Values” into this thread
merely to elevate his own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions, not
offending you.
-------------------------------------
Your point is noted.  And It's precisely why I quoted the words of
ChatGPT. It's a starting point only.  ChatGPT is in no way an authority.
"Values are individual beliefs..."  That's an entirely valid but
incomplete definition, I think.  And it's why I got sidetracked in my
initial search. So, what's the difference between beliefs and
opinions?  I think an opinion is merely an an expression of one's
belief.  Belief can be, but isn't necessarily based on facts.
Obviously the meaning of words can be dependent on the context of those
words and the users of those words, eg:- "freedom is another word for
nothing left to lose"
For me, beliefs can be expressed in assertions I'm confident I can defend
when/if challenged, while opinions are expressions of conclusions I'm
willing to admit I may have arrived at without adequate investigation.
Given that preceding paragraph infers my beliefs are the consequences of
adequate investigation, I can only grin and and say, "Shit happens"! 😏
Indeed, it does happen, all too frequently.
Probably thanks to my newly adopting discretion as a fundamental "value", I
don't recall it happening to me at all since this return to araa.
-------------------------------------

Now, there's a value I can agree with though I can't say I'm unfailingly
true to that value.
Bob
2024-04-07 21:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by badgolferman
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I know....all
this >>>>about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that,
say, over in >>>>India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good
Friday, or Christmas, >>>>for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
for example, allows >>>>students days off on non Hindu holidays?  >>>>>
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to
maintain the >>>>>>>>> culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
My family, for example, came over from England in the early
1800's and I >>>>>>>>> have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a
CANADIAN, not an >>>>>>>>> Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit
down for a, say, roast >>>>>>>>> beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make
for a strong >>>>>>>>> country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to
our own >>>>>>>>> OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS. >>>>>>>>
------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>> So, what's the difference
between values and opinions? >>>>>>> >>> Surely, YOU will tell ME what they
are. >>>>>> -------------------------------------
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
I don't have a ready answer to this question.  Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Post by Dexter
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Post by Dexter
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it.  Let's see what ChatGPT said.  It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
Post by Dexter
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
Post by Dexter
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Post by Dexter
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Post by Dexter
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
Post by Dexter
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Post by Dexter
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Post by Dexter
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
Post by Dexter
Post by Sharx335
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
Post by Dexter
End of quote.  --------------
I'd say that's a good start,  It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
Post by Dexter
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict.  In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values.  Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups.  In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
Post by Dexter
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
Post by Dexter
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group
don't > share the same values. Let's look at the examples in your quote
abae: >>>>> >   Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect. >>>>> > I don't
think anyone in this group would say they don't share those > values. The
conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see) > these values
reflected in certain opinions or behaviors. >>>>> > (I would point out that
that this holds true for society in general, and > not just our little
group.) >>>>> > > > >
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT Arguably, Artificial
Intelligence remains an oxymoron. EG: justice mercy, respect and
freedom can, and often if not mostly, contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by Sharx335
Post by Bob
Post by Dexter
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people
are predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with. People
also tend to believe that those values are “right” because they are
the values of their particular culture."
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous atheist”?
Seems to me Sharx  introduced the word “Values” into this thread
merely to elevate his own opinions.
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions, not
offending you.
-------------------------------------
Your point is noted.  And It's precisely why I quoted the words of
ChatGPT. It's a starting point only.  ChatGPT is in no way an authority.
"Values are individual beliefs..."  That's an entirely valid but
incomplete definition, I think.  And it's why I got sidetracked in my
initial search. So, what's the difference between beliefs and
opinions?  I think an opinion is merely an an expression of one's
belief.  Belief can be, but isn't necessarily based on facts.
Obviously the meaning of words can be dependent on the context of those
words and the users of those words, eg:- "freedom is another word for
nothing left to lose"
For me, beliefs can be expressed in assertions I'm confident I can defend
when/if challenged, while opinions are expressions of conclusions I'm
willing to admit I may have arrived at without adequate investigation.
Given that preceding paragraph infers my beliefs are the consequences of
adequate investigation, I can only grin and and say, "Shit happens"! 😏
Indeed, it does happen, all too frequently.
Probably thanks to my newly adopting discretion as a fundamental "value", I
don't recall it happening to me at all since this return to araa.
-------------------------------------
Now, there's a value I can agree with though I can't say I'm unfailingly
true to that value.
"Progress, not perfection."
--
Using Free PhoNews on Android
Dexter
2024-04-08 13:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and
is >>>>>>>>>>>> 'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christia
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
n-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday >>>>> >>>>> I know, I know....all
this >>>>about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really >>>>> think, that,
say, over in >>>>India, they give a rat's patooty about, say, >>>>> Good
Friday, or Christmas, >>>>for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
Post by Dexter
for example, allows >>>>students days off on non Hindu holidays? 
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our
Canadian >>>>>>>>>>> idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged
to >>maintain the >>>>>>>>> culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
My family, for example, came over from England in the early
1800's and I >>>>>>>>> have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a
CANADIAN, not an >>>>>>>>> Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to
sit >>down for a, say, roast >>>>>>>>> beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make
for a strong >>>>>>>>> country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to
our own >>>>>>>>> OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS. >>>>>>>>
------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>> So, what's the
difference >>between values and opinions? >>>>>>> >>> Surely, YOU will tell
ME what they >>are. >>>>>> -------------------------------------
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
I don't have a ready answer to this question.  Frankly I never
asked it, nor was I ever asked, that's why I turned to you, oh
wise ones.
Post by Dexter
Funny though, it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't
have a ready answer to this question either.
Post by Dexter
Seems I had to do a bit of reading.
I won't quote it but the gist is that values are the...
oh, fuck it.  Let's see what ChatGPT said.  It's way
more eloquent than I could ever be.
Post by Dexter
"Values and beliefs are both important aspects of
human cognition and behavior, but they differ in
Values are fundamental principles or standards
that individuals or groups consider to be of significant
importance in guiding their actions, judgments,
attitudes, and behaviors.
Post by Dexter
They represent what is desirable, worthwhile, or
important to a person or a society.
Post by Dexter
Values tend to be relatively stable and enduring
over time and influence various aspects of life, including
decision-making, relationships, and moral judgments.
Post by Dexter
Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect.
Beliefs are specific ideas, opinions, or convictions
that individuals hold to be true, often without
empirical evidence or proof.
Post by Dexter
They are cognitive representations of the world
that shape how individuals interpret and understand
their experiences and surroundings.
Post by Dexter
Beliefs can be based on personal experiences, cultural
teachings, religious doctrines, or other sources of influence.
Unlike values, beliefs may be subject to change or revision
in response to new information or experiences.
Post by Dexter
Examples of beliefs include religious beliefs, political beliefs,
superstitions, conspiracy theories, and scientific beliefs.
Post by Dexter
In summary, values are broad principles that guide behavior
and reflect what is considered important or desirable, while
beliefs are specific convictions or interpretations about reality
that influence how individuals perceive and respond to the
world around them. Values tend to be more enduring and
overarching, whereas beliefs can be more fluid and subject
to change."
Post by Dexter
End of quote.  --------------
I'd say that's a good start,  It's pretty broad and I would
say there are individual, generational, spiritual or cultural
differences in how each of us see these explanations.
Post by Dexter
For instance, I could easily see why this group is often in
conflict.  In large part, I don't think we actually share each
others' values.  Or our values only apply selectively, to our
own in groups.  In fact, I think the single value we share
is conflict.
Post by Dexter
It's a conundrum.
For instance, what values do you have that you think
we, you and I, might actually share?
Post by Dexter
I wish Rob were here.
I would disagree with your statement that members of this group
don't > share the same values. Let's look at the examples in your quote
abae: >>>>> >   Examples of values include honesty, integrity, freedom,
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
justice, equality, compassion, loyalty, and respect. >>>>> > I don't
think anyone in this group would say they don't share those > values. The
conflict comes in with regard to how we see (or don't see) > these values
reflected in certain opinions or behaviors. >>>>> > (I would point out that
that this holds true for society in general, and > not just our little
group.) >>>>> > > > >
Post by Dexter
Those “examples” were compiled by ChatGPT Arguably, Artificial
Intelligence remains an oxymoron. EG: justice mercy, respect and
freedom can, and often if not mostly, contradict each other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=values+definition&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAEEUYOxjCAzIJCAAQRRg7GMIDMgkIARBFGDsYwgMyCQgCEEUYOxjCAzIJCAMQRRg7GMIDMgkIBBBFGDsYwgMyCQgFEEUYOxjCAzIJCAYQRRg7GMIDMgkIBxBFGDsYwgMyCQgIEEUYOxjCAzIJCAkQRRg7GMID0gEJODAwNzRqMGo3qAIKsAIB&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=What%20is%20the,their%20particular%20culture.
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
"What is the best definition of values?
Values are individual beliefs that motivate people to act one way or
another. They serve as a guide for human behavior. Generally, people
are predisposed to adopt the values that they are raised with.
People >>> > > > also tend to believe that those values are “right” because
they are >>> > > > the values of their particular culture."
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
Doesn’t that sum up the opinions of Mike’s “famous
atheist”? >>> > > > > > > > Seems to me Sharx  introduced the word “Values”
into this thread >>> > > > merely to elevate his own opinions.
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
PS, Dave. My primary purpose was primarily validating my opinions,
not >>> > > > offending you.
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
-------------------------------------
Post by Dexter
Your point is noted.  And It's precisely why I quoted the
words of >>> > > ChatGPT. It's a starting point only.  ChatGPT is in no way
an authority. >>> > > > > > "Values are individual beliefs..."  That's an
entirely valid but >>> > > incomplete definition, I think.  And it's why I
got sidetracked in my >>> > > initial search. So, what's the difference
between beliefs and >>> > > opinions?  I think an opinion is merely an an
expression of one's >>> > > belief.  Belief can be, but isn't necessarily
based on facts. >>> > > > Obviously the meaning of words can be dependent
on the context of those >>> > words and the users of those words, eg:-
"freedom is another word for >>> > nothing left to lose"
Post by Dexter
Post by Dexter
For me, beliefs can be expressed in assertions I'm confident I can
defend >>> > when/if challenged, while opinions are expressions of
conclusions I'm >>> > willing to admit I may have arrived at without adequate
investigation. >>> > > > Given that preceding paragraph infers my beliefs
are the consequences of >>> > adequate investigation, I can only grin and and
say, "Shit happens"! 😏 >>> > > > > > > > > Indeed, it does happen, all
too frequently.
Post by Dexter
Probably thanks to my newly adopting discretion as a fundamental "value",
I don't recall it happening to me at all since this return to araa.
-------------------------------------
Now, there's a value I can agree with though I can't say I'm unfailingly
true to that value.
"Progress, not perfection."
-------------------------------------

Thanks for the reminder.
Skeezix LaRocca
2024-04-04 18:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya really
think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty about, say,
Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR education system,
for example, allows students days off on non Hindu holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain the
culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and I
have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not an
Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say, roast
beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a strong
country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
Damn, I hate it when you and I think alike, Dave.
--
We all do better when we all do better.

Paul Wellstone
Sharx335
2024-04-04 19:25:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Skeezix LaRocca
Post by Sharx335
Post by badgolferman
Famous atheist says he identifies as a 'cultural Christian' and is
'horrified' by promotion of Islamic holiday
https://www.foxnews.com/media/famous-atheist-says-identifies-cultural-christian-horrified-promotion-islamic-holiday
I know, I know....all this about so-called "inclusivity". But, ya
really think, that, say, over in India, they give a rat's patooty
about, say, Good Friday, or Christmas, for example. Ya think THEIR
education system, for example, allows students days off on non Hindu
holidays?
I believe the "melting pot" idea is far, far better than our Canadian
idea of a "cultural mosaic" where people are encouraged to maintain
the culture of the area from whence they immigrated.
My family, for example, came over from England in the early 1800's and
I have absolute NO desire to travel over there. I am a CANADIAN, not
an Anglo-Canadian. I do not sit down or crave to sit down for a, say,
roast beef and Yorkshire Pudding dinner.
Once again, IMHO, I believe that having SIMILAR values make for a
strong country NOT, I repeat, NOT DIVERGENT values.
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
Damn, I hate it when you and I think alike, Dave.
Surely a sign of the End Times. Frank? Be VERY worried! The
singularity is coming your way.
Socrates
2024-04-05 23:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Skeezix LaRocca
Post by Sharx335
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
Damn, I hate it when you and I think alike, Dave.
Surely a sign of the End Times.  Frank?  Be VERY worried! The
singularity is coming your way.
Having PC problems, be surprised if this flies. Got one of those
unwanted upgrades. I made a point of turning off the connection and
stopped it a few times but got careless I guess. If this showed up it
will be the last until I get my genius son-in-law over here and he's out
of town for awhile
Sharx335
2024-04-06 03:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Socrates
Post by Skeezix LaRocca
Post by Sharx335
VALUES, not necessarily, OPINIONS.  We are all entitled to our own
OPINIONS, but NOT our own FACTS.
Damn, I hate it when you and I think alike, Dave.
Surely a sign of the End Times.  Frank?  Be VERY worried! The
singularity is coming your way.
Having PC problems, be surprised if this flies. Got one of those
unwanted upgrades.  I made a point of turning off the connection and
stopped it a few times but got careless I guess.  If this showed up it
will be the last until I get my genius son-in-law over here and he's out
of town for awhile
Apparently, the singularity has already arrived at Chez Frank.
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